Stacking buffs

[Ninepaces]

changing how auras work would definitely shift the tank situation up and give more opportunity to BG and IB.

It's a lot more complicated than just auras. AoE snare is a huge factor, and BO/Knight have the best aoe snares in the game. Armor debuff is another factor, IB/BG one of the big draws is the armor debuff... but Mara/WL and BO all bring them.

BG SnB spec brings basically nothing and it's KD isn't on demand, 2h spec has no KD so it can't be run with BO unless you have a WE and even then you are running suboptimal classes to accommodate or get the most out of a suboptimal tank.

Morale pump on destro is just flat out retarded and totally alienates BG as a class in every imagine situation, this is the biggest case for BG being just unusable. At least classes like magus have a niche.

Yes. BG only sees play when the set of people dont have the classes available to make the optimal group. I wonder though, if undetauntable + maybe superior dps can make up for its short comings. It has some other neat stuff like the ap drains and a very good kd when its available. The armor debuff on 5s cd is also maybe not bad, meaning you're not just relying on the maura armor debuffs that can be cleansed. 50% outgoing healdebuff also great when the situation applies. But, like you said, losing one of the morale pumps is hard to swallow, and just on a practical level its harder to play without auras or aoe snare. If I could make only one change to BG it would be to make their snare hit three targets like the kobs one (without needing a tactic).

BG isnt so bad for roaming because you're unlikely to fight 6v6 in a vaccuum, but its no excuse for not being on the same level as chosen/bo.

[7rere7]

BG don't need armor debuff so much if they use dispelled detaunt and heal debuff tatics so long as they are on a softy. BG can also eat away their AP and have a single super punt that cancels out another opposing player ,(again no armor debuff needed ).
BG have by far the best self heal for a tank , 4,000 health points in 30 seconds ,with a cd of minute ,that's 30 sec wait time to re apply, insanely OP ability ! Guarding and using a two hand wep + taking focus fire in enemy back lines should be doable .
BG not the best group utility but have the ability to constantly shut down a single target , like healer or BW that other tanks cannot do as well.

BO have to slot a tactic for AoE snare ,its not a given ability ,which kinda sucks.

[Kattastrof]

7Rere7 What is your point?

[Jaycub]

BG don't need armor debuff so much if they use dispelled detaunt and heal debuff tatics so long as they are on a softy. BG can also eat away their AP and have a single super punt that cancels out another opposing player ,(again no armor debuff needed ).
BG have by far the best self heal for a tank , 4,000 health points in 30 seconds ,with a cd of minute ,that's 30 sec wait time to re apply, insanely OP ability ! Guarding and using a two hand wep + taking focus fire in enemy back lines should be doable .
BG not the best group utility but have the ability to constantly shut down a single target , like healer or BW that other tanks cannot do as well.

BO have to slot a tactic for AoE snare ,its not a given ability ,which kinda sucks.

Anti-Detaunt tactic is easily the most overrated tactic in the game, it's only good for pug stomping. Detaunt doesn't stack with guard, so anything you are hitting a guarded target this does nothing for you at all. As a 2h BG if you would ever have enough DPS to threaten a healer, you won't be specced for self heal and honestly this is just unrealistic (killing a healer in a proper group by yourself).

As for taking focus fire as a 2h bg, again no good abilities/tactics to mitigate damage while in 2h spec unlike SM's get out of jail free card, along with other classes like knight vigilance/m2, or something like chosen/ib parry buff or morales etc... BG can't afford to not run CC/DA m1 in proper groups, so running defensive M1 is not an option.

About BO snare, it's 1 tactic slot for a permanent AoE snare with a free 25% disorient attached to it on an ability that inherently lowers str and can aoe steal stats. Oh and it's a ranged 30ft snare with technically no CD only obstructed by stance dancing and relatively high AP costs. BG doesn't have any tactic that even comes close to being as powerful as big brawlin.

[Teefz]

No, armor potions should be deleted entirely.

Interesting. If so wouldn't butchering become more or less pointless? In my opinion the trade skills in this game aren't amazing, but it does keep a steady flow of ppl going out in world and giving people an alternative instead of exiting the game when ORvR/SC is slow. Hope i am not the only one looking forward to farming the drakes in LotD for old times sake? Some workaround might work?

With armor pot out of the way it would argueable open up more room for other classes/specs and possible force people to spec otherwise instead of just stacking armor. This would possibly bring back the Toughness spec for at least a few classes which I don't think overall is a bad alternative. This will however boost the DPS ingame by a certain %, which will benefit some classes to a point where I think their ability to kill targets on their own/focused assist will feel like their classes got a buff, even more so when put together in group. This will hurt the classes/playerbase on the recieving end, which ultimately means a lot of QQ going your way. Not that this has stopped you guys before though

This brings another potion to mind as I haven't come across anything about it yet, what or is there any plans of implementing liniments if you don't mind me asking?

*Edit - Adding more*

The other option would be to make stat potions stack, but be short duration, high cooldown effects.

I don't know if you played SWTOR as there was such potions(adrenals) but in my opinion this was a downgrade coming from WAR. This ultimately just boosts the 'wait for morales/adrenals/potions cd' mentality which wouldn't benefit the game from my pov at least. I agree that healing/ap pots kinda are in the same boat, but ultimately if there is content(trade skills/professions) it would in my mind make sense just to utilize the aspects which weren't ridiculously overpowered? (I'm looking at you LotD talismans n' cloaks! ) Heal/ap pots are easy to get for everyone especially now through the new upgraded rvr system in opposed to... armor pot f.x. As of right now the healing pots/ap don't share the same value for me as opposed to a hypothetical 'potion of death' and it properly never will. Please dear god no.

[Luth]

If the removal of one butchering component makes a whole profession useless, then all the potion profession(s) need to be changed/fixed, because they are obviously flawed. But that's no pro-armor pot argument imo.

[Bozzax]

BG SnB spec brings basically nothing and it's KD isn't on demand, 2h spec has no KD so it can't be run with BO unless you have a WE and even then you are running suboptimal classes to accommodate or get the most out of a suboptimal tank.

Something like this would solve so many BG/2H BG problems http://imgur.com/a/4lNeM

imo it is the arrangement of the abilities that is BGs biggest issue. Compare to the best tanks that easily tri spec / split spec and pick up the best abilities (CC) and avoidance. Another example of abilities being out of reach was BOs having KD at 11pts. Moving it to 9pts just made the class more fun not more OP.

The only tank that has its avoidance at 11pts gimping 2h builds
SM - 50% parry core
IB - 25% parry 5pts
KOTBS - 15% block 3pts
Chosen - 25% parry core + 25% parry 5pts
BO- 10% block core 0,5,10% block 5pts
BG - 0-30% parry 11pts

Having the unless AP-cost-reduction-tactic low in the tree when other tanks have it at 11pts (Chosen, KOTBS) really hurts the class as everything just is bumped up.

So rearranging abilities making changes that already are in place on all other tanks would go a long way.

I'd even keep BoR/MoR unchanged as they actually are ok-ish compared to other tanks low specs and even have some specific uses if you think about it.

[7rere7]

BG don't need armor debuff so much if they use dispelled detaunt and heal debuff tatics so long as they are on a softy. BG can also eat away their AP and have a single super punt that cancels out another opposing player ,(again no armor debuff needed ).
BG have by far the best self heal for a tank , 4,000 health points in 30 seconds ,with a cd of minute ,that's 30 sec wait time to re apply, insanely OP ability ! Guarding and using a two hand wep + taking focus fire in enemy back lines should be doable .
BG not the best group utility but have the ability to constantly shut down a single target , like healer or BW that other tanks cannot do as well.

BO have to slot a tactic for AoE snare ,its not a given ability ,which kinda sucks.

Anti-Detaunt tactic is easily the most overrated tactic in the game, it's only good for pug stomping. Detaunt doesn't stack with guard, so anything you are hitting a guarded target this does nothing for you at all. As a 2h BG if you would ever have enough DPS to threaten a healer, you won't be specced for self heal and honestly this is just unrealistic (killing a healer in a proper group by yourself).

As for taking focus fire as a 2h bg, again no good abilities/tactics to mitigate damage while in 2h spec unlike SM's get out of jail free card, along with other classes like knight vigilance/m2, or something like chosen/ib parry buff or morales etc... BG can't afford to not run CC/DA m1 in proper groups, so running defensive M1 is not an option.

About BO snare, it's 1 tactic slot for a permanent AoE snare with a free 25% disorient attached to it on an ability that inherently lowers str and can aoe steal stats. Oh and it's a ranged 30ft snare with technically no CD only obstructed by stance dancing and relatively high AP costs. BG doesn't have any tactic that even comes close to being as powerful as big brawlin.

Tanks are suppose to be guarding DPS classes not hang around the back lines ,that's loosing battle positioning ! If a tank needs to guard a healer that means a soft DPS class is unguarded =advantage ! If that is how Anti -Detaunt is overrated im not getting it . Plus tank guard on any healer counts out every tank having an effect bringing it down itself!
BO , Chosen's don't get a -50 % heal debuff don't have 30% damage increase with taunt , AP steal ,ignore 25% armor ability and if that's not enough super single punt that is able to take out single target if coordinated properly !

BG's have the increased toughness tactic ,seems good on paper and usually every BG seems to slot it......maybe that's overrated too? 50% increase in toughness should allow a BG to go two handed !
Why mention the ability of Big Brawlin ?.I was referring only to what the tactic gives. The tactic itself is aoe snare that last only 4 sec and cost 50 AP. Few BO's spec into the DaBoss so the strength debuff is weak. Yes it has 25% disorient to it, but my main point was it cost a heavy price, (one tactic slot) !

Im not a BG so I could be wrong ,but ive heard that a great BG player can make it shine more then any destro tank!
I might roll one to find out myself ,they seem to be super sexy on paper !

Im going Off topic , so im locking myself from further discussion that doesn't relate to this thread sorry !

[Bozzax]

maybe that's overrated too? 50% increase in toughness should allow a BG to go two handed !

Nope not in team play as guard damage bypasses toughness completely. Also being tanky isn't really what good tanks are about.

Im not a BG so I could be wrong ,but ive heard that a great BG player can make it shine more then any destro tank!

Currently BGs are last in the picking order and those who play them do so out of love.

[drmordread]

Removing Armor Pots and Talis .... interesting. Because they negate some buff or other from some useless tank or whatever ....

So basically you guys want to just make this a game of tanks and healers right? So I just should delete my WH's, my SW, my WE and SH? OHH Wait yeah... i forgot. I should not be out solo ganking, I should be in a group, because this is a group game and only group mechanics count as far as what is kept and what is not kept.

Why the hate towards any class that can solo? I do not get it? And yes, it is obvious bias favoring only group play. And not just that, but an obvious favoritism of tanks.

here are some other reasons why getting rid of armor pots and tallis would hurt the game;
1- Lower RR toons in t4 would suffer as the armor imbalance between say Warlord and Anni is too much. Armor pots and tallis equal things out just a tiny fraction more.

2- Completely cuts down on customizing your toon. Everyone will be playing cookie cutter specs. While I know some of you think this is awesome, some of us actually like to have fun and try different things just for the hell of it.

I have already noticed the absence of Crit tallies and absorb pots and more important that of Liniments. Everything that allowed a mdps to operate, kill and escape if playing solo.