Return of Reckoning

noisestorm wrote:With armor easier obtainable i was rather thinking about something like better scaling on talis the lower your armor type is. Also that the WS scaling is bullcrap is another topic.

And Yes my idea would need quite some DB work too - i am aware of that. Changing the scaling of classes and their base stats isnt a big deal on the other hand. Also finding a formula can be a bit harder especially if its not suppused to be linear, but thats also something that can be figured and balanced out with some effort.
But just keep it coming guys - im interrested in what people think. Lets just hope the game will be AS balanced without LotD and RR100 as some believe it to be. Since i am not really sure on this one myself

Armor should be easy to obtain, that shouldn't even be a question. Armor creates the biggest imbalances when some have access to what others don't.


Also, we're not getting LotD gear?

Nishka wrote:What are you talking about? The only instance of sorc/bw being squishy is when they're playing solo without guard and healers. Add a guard and 1-2 healers and bw/sorc becomes tank of sorts.

Add this to yourself and Sorc/BW wouldn't be a problem anymore
And I've said about this already - have no idea why you missed this.

Bozzax wrote:Funny how SORC/BW are singled out and in T3 with subpar gear

Lets compile real Burst/DPS numbers in a controlled test environment on fully buffed/debuffed targets including group for all dps classes.

Given this data and in a 6-man ideal environment lets look at what classes that are really OP

So you're trying to say, lets debuff a dummy to oblivion and do the spreadsheet for all classes who's doing the most base dmg to determine if it's OP or not? That's the stupidest idea ever.
What a class can do single handed is what matters, or duo of dps classes - their sync in placing debuffs, hexes etc to maximize effectiveness, or coordination in disabling critical guarded targets. Also, when you have skilled players in a group, even those classes that are in the shade in terms of raw dmg will melt faces.

So hang on let me get this 90% of the people in here are QQing about sorcs and BW's hmm ok get a group, that's all I have to say ( 2 healers 1-2 tanks and you counter a BW/sorc). When it comes to TB it was put in the game NOT because of rdps class like BW's/Sorcs but because of mdps like marauders/slayers/WH's/WE's.

On the side note a BW/Sorc who has killed some1 90% of the time (not aoe btw) has to line everything up and hope to god that disrupt flys away from them, put 2 dots on cast PS then seer then WH and if all those hit and crit yes you are dead but lets see you had no hots on u or cleanses and you was not guarded and you did not detaunt the BW/sorc or los him so really its not how OP the Sorc/BW is its how bad your group and you are.

Bretin wrote: same talk

i totaly agree with Bretin


PS: i play sorc (max crit what i see was like 2,8k on slayer) but sorc / BW is easy to awoid/mitigate:
1) not stupid WP/DOK will have group cleance = > cleance WoP/BB no dmg for sorc
2) make melee presure on sorc/BW even if you dont kill him he need to move => can cast only DoT = 0 dmg, 2 tanks can kill sorc + same backslash
3) WL pounce and kill in 4 sec:D

on live server on T4 was sorc/BW almost unplayable on 6v6 or in scenarios, yes in open bomb it was best / maybee slayer can be better/

Sorc/Bw damage is high and bursty because it's easy to shut down. Cleanse/Disrupt/Pressure/Pre-Healing.

Sorc/bw damage drops substantially when they are being pressured by a melee train.

You dont even need a full melee train, even sitting a defensive tank who knows how to interrupt spells will counter a lot of the Sorcs/bw burst.

The class is built around burst, if you remove that burst your left with a pointless class.

Azuzu wrote:Sorc/Bw damage is high and bursty because it's easy to shut down. Cleanse/Disrupt/Pressure/Pre-Healing.

Sorc/bw damage drops substantially when they are being pressured by a melee train.

You dont even need a full melee train, even sitting a defensive tank who knows how to interrupt spells will counter a lot of the Sorcs/bw burst.

The class is built around burst, if you remove that burst your left with a pointless class.

The classes them selves are not the problem, its how the classes themselves interact with other factors such as increased critical chance abilities and what not

I know tb was spoken about in private by devs and co and there were varied opinions but i still believe introducing TB but with max 3 ranks(30%) would work.
Players dont like to be insta gibed which can happen with a burst of crits currently. No doubt someone will say get a group etc etc but not everyone infact a small portion of the playerbase plays in premades, you dont want the casual player who logs in a few times a week to pvp and have the wtf feeling when they get insta gibed by a crit spike. 30% tb would not affect organised groups because they will still assist/cc correctly and burst targets down, sure it might make fights with orgainsed group vs organised group last longer but if anything it adds more skill to the fight as resource managment, skill rotation and burst is more of an issue.
Tb was introduced due to lotd/rr90 and 100 crit values but with the prior renown system there were more ways to reduce damage taken then just toughness and even then players would complain of not getting up after being kd.

I like the idea of making ini reduce crit damage taken because stacking ini scales so badly so makes no sense (spent 20 points myself, 72 to see how it would work and it gave me around 3.5% less chance to be crit, scales as bad as willpower ) but would require alot of work.

If anything try it and see the outcome, it wont be hard to disable it if tb does make everyone unkillable which i highly doubt it will.

Coryphaus wrote:

Azuzu wrote:Sorc/Bw damage is high and bursty because it's easy to shut down. Cleanse/Disrupt/Pressure/Pre-Healing.

Sorc/bw damage drops substantially when they are being pressured by a melee train.

You dont even need a full melee train, even sitting a defensive tank who knows how to interrupt spells will counter a lot of the Sorcs/bw burst.

The class is built around burst, if you remove that burst your left with a pointless class.

The classes them selves are not the problem, its how the classes themselves interact with other factors such as increased critical chance abilities and what not

At the moment, the highest crit chance you can get is +25ish from gear. Come endgame, without the crazy LoTD talis, it might be around 30%.

Without a crit Sorc/Bw damage is meh, it's a burst class, not a slow pressure class. in a 6v6 setting BW/Sorc is easy to counter, sitting in them neatuilizes their damage. If your letting them sit there and free cast it's a problem.

In a group setting, classes like Slayer/WL/Mara/Choppa are much more dangerous in my opinion.

The fact that we can't even spec into crit yet and people already want to nerf the damage is disturbing.