What happened to RvR?

[Wam]

True open world fight would be too much griefing potential imo which is unhealthy as server is pvx and not hardcore

If you want carrot and stick approach... bigger incentive for keeps (1k renown for keep... you can join a SC and win in 2 minutes and get more than that... or you fight hard for 4+ hours and still don't earn the 1k from keeps) Currently there is a discrepancy between effort and reward for keeps in my opinion as SC's are more profitable... even standing on BO is

Not sure what else can be done... I know you want BO's to be important so they have the "ticks" to reward... but ticks also make people afk on BO, its guarenteed reward

Keep attack's are not guarenteed and the reward is not worth the risk of time in comparison...

First you need enough ranks to get a ram, then need to get ram to other keep without it bugging out, then if no defenders (v rare) no oil... take's a few minutes to break outer, then takes a few more minutes to break inner... (if no resistance, no funneling, no suicide on ram and no siege)

then you got inner same again with the funneling/suicide... ram could break / need another 10 mins and retry...
If everything goes right and you manage to break other side... and then you need to tank keep lord and kill it... and also defend... now with BO healing, you will need to spread resources/manpower appropiately ...

Then you eventually get 1k renown? Im not sure how fast that is in ideal situation... usually 20-30 minutes at best if not usually longer with defenders or not at all if defense succesful.

20 renown every 6 second at bo ticks? you make alot more from being static and "letting others do the work" which you will most likely get rewarded for also... it's boring, its borderline abuse, but its guarenteed and maybe more effective

im not sure how you can fix issue of passive play/leach ... on live people use to have add on's and go to different zone's waiting for zone locks with their banners for extra renown instead of actually play the game. You will always have this element just its very visual element at BO's so its in your face alot.

[roadkillrobin]

And open pvp servers were so fun mythic closed them in first place.

Coz they were quit unballanced. Having lvl 21's ganking lvl 2's without any kind of bolsters etz.
The concept of true open world pvp have never bothered me one bit, I prefer it actually.
The lvl difference of those servers were what people didn't like if i have to guess.

[Wam]

And open pvp servers were so fun mythic closed them in first place.

Coz they were quit unballanced. Having lvl 21's ganking lvl 2's without any kind of bolsters etz.
The concept of true open world pvp have never bothered me one bit, I prefer it actually.
The lvl difference of those servers were what people didn't like if i have to guess.

In theory its good, in reality... not so good, you realise how much more salt TUP or Phalanx would get in that system? just by playing the game... then working out the bolstering/chicken/bugs/loopholes

People already give enough salt from dying in RVR lake... and that's consensual

It would be great for random encounters and new terrain, but most the time not so great, especially if something organised took advantage... looking at ch 22 pq no one would complete that ever... looking at ruin farm hot spots... that is "ruining" other's game play tbh for cheap kills not much gained besides griefing... it would turn off too many new players from being gank bait

It would also be great for seeing more of the maps but too problematic to be worth unfortunately... reason why PVX is usually more successful

[roadkillrobin]

True open world fight would be too much griefing potential imo which is unhealthy as server is pvx and not hardcore

Lotd were like this and it didn't really bother people to much. ToVL being mixed however was a really bad idea.

[roadkillrobin]

And open pvp servers were so fun mythic closed them in first place.

Coz they were quit unballanced. Having lvl 21's ganking lvl 2's without any kind of bolsters etz.
The concept of true open world pvp have never bothered me one bit, I prefer it actually.
The lvl difference of those servers were what people didn't like if i have to guess.

In theory its good, in reality... not so good, you realise how much more salt TUP or Phalanx would get in that system? just by playing the game... then working out the bolstering/chicken/bugs/loopholes

People already give enough salt from dying in RVR lake... and that's consensual

It would be great for random encounters and new terrain, but most the time not so great, especially if something organised took advantage... looking at ch 22 pq no one would complete that ever... looking at ruin farm hot spots... that is "ruining" other's game play tbh for cheap kills not much gained besides griefing... it would turn off too many new players from being gank bait

It would also be great for seeing more of the maps but too problematic to be worth unfortunately... reason why PVX is usually more successful

The idea was that only active rvr zone map counted PQ's for vp's like it did on live. You could move to a non active zone if you wanted to be left in peace doing pve.

[Hargrim]

I'm out of this discussion, said my piece. Have fun fixing game armchair developers!

[Toldavf]

Wait are you the same tiren that used to have an arch mage with the last name bishop?

Yes, i even play an archmage right now! you can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that
Did we play together perhaps?

I think we did in my very early days, you might remember surf and belshanar maybe?

[anarchypark]

Nope never VP related action outside of orvr.
you know how that ended.
ppl avoid fight.

1 tick of ammo refill, from SC winning.
SC losing lost nothing.
no rvr reward for SC but SC help orvr.

imagine, Howling Gorge winners brought resources for dwarf pairing.
Caledor Woods triumph do the same for elf.
surprise gifts are always welcome.
and the feel of not fighting alone.

well, I need cannon ammo that badly.

[Greenbeast]

The other day in high pass we had some pretty epic fights...

Spoiler:

We was only 3 fg on order... fighting +3 destro wbs defending our keep... we wiped them a few times, sometimes with help, sometimes without... died a few times by swarm np
Eventually Destro got inside keep but was too many for us to kill in time / keep lord dropped and we was by ourselves... despite keep being mentioned on region
Order's attitude was lol they will never kill lord in region and all other crap that is usually spewed
we respawn go to tavern for a last stand after keep is lost... and what do we find... we find just as many order players as was destro at keep but they are all just standing on tavern bo afk doing absouletely nothing but complaining about anything and everything my guild included (damn those x realmers who come to make more interesting fights instead of dominate zzzz pvdoor fest)

This is normal attitude of entitlement... do nothing expect to be rewarded, and the system does reward for doing nothing, it does reward for being loser... you can conq up alot easier than in the past where you had to earn it and was based on activity and performance more so and yes it had is flaws too... so you will never please these people no matter what you do even if the perfect system was in place

Spoiler:

My favourite system so far was when flag capping got changed to 1 -3 minute timers... instead of 3-6 because it produced movement throughout the zone instead of static afkness on bo's... or trolling as soon as you leave by some stealth capping where small group is not worth a 24 man's time

As for fun vs progress... on destro we make no progress for a long time in my eyes with BIS and a few RR 80 (I was 3 months 0 progress atleast, some member 6 months maybe even more 0 progress) ... the main reason to play was "the enjoyment of social interactions or enjoyment of competition"... but then destro became too dominant... On order we can make more progress, but the fun is in the tougher fights because we don't out renown/gear people so its more challenging with our lowbie's

Spoiler:

TL DR... you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink... that is the Dev's problem (well not their problem its player mentality problem) dev's can't make people organise and fight properly... they provide the platform and tools for it, but alot of backseat drivers going to bitch and moan all the time instead of organise themselves to do better... instead of the usual pug overlords like Kriser/King Ocara and others who are always willing to fight... Without these people how many more people would be standing at bo's seperate ends of the map in "pvp" game and complain about every aspect.
The pugs are spoilt and they still complain, complain about allies, complain about enemies, complain about xrealm, complain about system...
They complain we don't talk to them, even when we do, and they don't talk themselves... complain that we are "zergers" even when we don't and die because of it (its very easy for us... too easy and boring if we just run around and used other wb's as shield all the time but we can't stop people following us so go figure just because we have solid guild numbers most the time we are dirty zergers which is a running in guild joke )
I know what they want, they want to run behind us and overwhelm other forces (zerg...) even if its against just one warband... to get easy medals/renown and then be hypocrits and complain about other realm doing exact the same thing, not many people in this game show restraint to such ways... i know ive jumped off bridges to death, waypointed, run to other zones flight master to get rid of tail (when its too excessive... can't do it all the time though as much as want eats away too much time and fight opportunities)
good luck fixing leach and weak mentality, it's a never ending problem...

Plenty of good fights in RVR, just need to find them

I agree with "the mentality issue" you speaking about.
I think it can not be fixed by devs it is something that community must fix on its own. It was more or less same on live with one exception - due to higher amount of players there was more people and orgs like Okara and TUP/NRM/CNTK/INVASION/Zerg etc to entertain people. This game is just huge pvp sand box. And a lot of people can not entertain them self in this game due to its limitations for single/pug players. It is not problem of players it is problem of the game core design and that's why it is niche game. Which is neither bad or good.

I like changes devs are doing to rvr. It allow small groups/warbands to roam more, making it more interesting for them to play. And I think bo's should play even bigger role to be honest because even now you still see zones shrinking to numbing zerg road between two wcs/bo's. Changes like that force people to communicate more.

As for progression there is so much in this game other then just renown and gold bags what give's me feeling of progression/achivement.Things like mind games(skaven tunnel in MM Wam ), breaking morale of the enemy, escaping inevitable death, geting people together etc To be honest I dont know why you even need all this loot if you dont have other 5-24 people around you to enable your class to play.

Spoiler:

In this epic Sunday HP/TB lake we stomped order for 1h with 2 warbands. We have started with 20% aoo on destro and ended with more or less empty zone. So we have sieged the keep and then you loged in. So I believe to the point you came in a lot of order players have been a bit frustrated. This happening to destro when you/zerg/invasion/cntk all online at the same time We were able to take this keep only due to miracle of /2. People just suddenly listened to proposals we have made. I think playing with losing realm is always the same - you have a lot of frustrated people who cant handle this feeling any more. So they "give up" and "whine"

Plenty of good fights in RVR, just need to find them

+1

[Tirien27]

Wait are you the same tiren that used to have an arch mage with the last name bishop?

Yes, i even play an archmage right now! you can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that
Did we play together perhaps?

I think we did in my very early days, you might remember surf and belshanar maybe?

Not sure about surf, if i dig deep enough maybe, i do remember or recollect the name Belshanar! Did we play together through the Alliance or in a guild?