Return of Reckoning

Remove armor pots!

Make squishies squishy again!

Gobtar wrote:
And ignoring the points mentioned as well; that WP may likely lose this aura or have it changed fundamentally in one way or the other. Also if the only reason why butchering is viable is because of ONE potion then that is a problem with butchering, not with armour pots.

If the basis of your counters is CAPS YELLING...I have something to tell you friend...

Spoiler:

IT WILL NEVER WORK!

because you addressing me directly. I´ve read the points. "making it (the aura) something different" is an even worse argument than a simple "NO". In fact it is the worst argument at all (at all times), unless you explain what changes you want to implement (which you didn´t)...


About the butchering: So you agree?
What is true for armor-pots, is also true for all stat-pots (don´t stack with the buff/runes/whatever), so yes, changing the way it works now, will make butchering useless. unless you want to change it also in "something fundamentally different"...and don´t forget "awesome"

What is the basis of your counters? Repeat no-arguments and asking rhetorical questions?

Azarael wrote:No, armor potions should be deleted entirely.

big, fat agree to this

Arbich wrote:

Gobtar wrote:
And ignoring the points mentioned as well; that WP may likely lose this aura or have it changed fundamentally in one way or the other. Also if the only reason why butchering is viable is because of ONE potion then that is a problem with butchering, not with armour pots.

If the basis of your counters is CAPS YELLING...I have something to tell you friend...

Spoiler:

IT WILL NEVER WORK!

because you addressing me directly. I´ve read the points. "making it (the aura) something different" is an even worse argument than a simple "NO". In fact it is the worst argument at all (at all times), unless you explain what changes you want to implement (which you didn´t)...


About the butchering: So you agree?
What is true for armor-pots, is also true for all stat-pots (don´t stack with the buff/runes/whatever), so yes, changing the way it works now, will make butchering useless. unless you want to change it also in "something fundamentally different"...and don´t forget "awesome"

What is the basis of your counters? Repeat no-arguments and asking rhetorical questions?

Alright settle-down fellas, save it for the battlefield!

For the record, it is okay to be vague about potential changes, thoughts and ideas may simply help others to come up with an actual plan. Plus Gobtar was practically Parroting what Penril had said, which you seemed to have skipped.

Arbich wrote:

because you addressing me directly. I´ve read the points. "making it (the aura) something different" is an even worse argument than a simple "NO". In fact it is the worst argument at all (at all times), unless you explain what changes you want to implement (which you didn´t)...


About the butchering: So you agree?
What is true for armor-pots, is also true for all stat-pots (don´t stack with the buff/runes/whatever), so yes, changing the way it works now, will make butchering useless. unless you want to change it also in "something fundamentally different"...and don´t forget "awesome"

What is the basis of your counters? Repeat no-arguments and asking rhetorical questions?

The burden of proof doesn't lie on me friend, I am not countering, all I am doing is saying that your post lacked the nuance to get your point across, and giving you some helpful advice on how better to sway the devs who already see much cause to remove armor pots from the game.

As for butchering, that can and should addressed as well, crafting is an important part of the game, butchering should have a wide and varied use...it shouldn't be "Armor pot mat collecting skill".

Gobtar wrote:

Arbich wrote:

because you addressing me directly. I´ve read the points. "making it (the aura) something different" is an even worse argument than a simple "NO". In fact it is the worst argument at all (at all times), unless you explain what changes you want to implement (which you didn´t)...


About the butchering: So you agree?
What is true for armor-pots, is also true for all stat-pots (don´t stack with the buff/runes/whatever), so yes, changing the way it works now, will make butchering useless. unless you want to change it also in "something fundamentally different"...and don´t forget "awesome"

What is the basis of your counters? Repeat no-arguments and asking rhetorical questions?

The burden of proof doesn't lie on me friend, I am not countering, all I am doing is saying that your post lacked the nuance to get your point across, and giving you some helpful advice on how better to sway the devs who already see much cause to remove armor pots from the game.

As for butchering, that can and should addressed as well, crafting is an important part of the game, butchering should have a wide and varied use...it shouldn't be "Armor pot mat collecting skill".

Ok, I give you this point. My arguments were rather short and without a lot of explanation. About the Butchering, I already gave a more detailed explanation in my recent post.
I don´t see a way how it can be addressed.
The only valid argument for removing armor-pots is, that is renders some abilities (like armor-prayer) useless. But this is true for all stat-potions. Removing them all, makes 3 professions almost useless.

About the WP: It seems you have understand my argument (even if it was very short), because you rightly addressing the armor-prayer.

While I agree, that removing stat-pots solve some problems with now practically useless abilities, I will produce other problems.

If your advice lies in excessive use of filler words without giving any arguments, than sorry, I don´t need it.

Arbich wrote: Ok, I give you this point. My arguments were rather short and without a lot of explanation. About the Butchering, I already gave a more detailed explanation in my recent post.
I don´t see a way how it can be addressed.
The only valid argument for removing armor-pots is, that is renders some abilities (like armor-prayer) useless. But this is true for all stat-potions. Removing them all, makes 3 professions almost useless.

About the WP: It seems you have understand my argument (even if it was very short), because you rightly addressing the armor-prayer.

While I agree, that removing stat-pots solve some problems with now practically useless abilities, I will produce other problems.

If your advice lies in excessive use of filler words without giving any arguments, than sorry, I don´t need it.

I will endeavor to be more pertinent in the future.

Other players have addressed the issue with armor aura, in general there is a problem with auras, i.e Static, unremovable, 100% guarnteed buffs/ debuffs. "Congratulations you showed up to the fight, here, do your *thing* by just being there".
Like wise, pots that grant a static buff yet can't be removed seems misplaced when compared to the risk-reward elements in the game felt by every other class.

Az has suggested some course of action to make potions viable yet not hamper the skills of a handful of classes bringing those skills into viability.

changing how auras work would definitely shift the tank situation up and give more opportunity to BG and IB.

Ninepaces wrote:changing how auras work would definitely shift the tank situation up and give more opportunity to BG and IB.

It's a lot more complicated than just auras. AoE snare is a huge factor, and BO/Knight have the best aoe snares in the game. Armor debuff is another factor, IB/BG one of the big draws is the armor debuff... but Mara/WL and BO all bring them.

BG SnB spec brings basically nothing and it's KD isn't on demand, 2h spec has no KD so it can't be run with BO unless you have a WE and even then you are running suboptimal classes to accommodate or get the most out of a suboptimal tank.

Morale pump on destro is just flat out retarded and totally alienates BG as a class in every imagine situation, this is the biggest case for BG being just unusable. At least classes like magus have a niche.

SM damage output is insane, right now the only reason you ever bring a IB is for the armor debuff if you aren't running a WL. Which forces you into abusing procs to get a group as good as wl/slayer. Not sure if the movement dot still procs wp/bw dots 100% of the time.



Also about removing armor pots, I don't get all the favor for it (I personally would love it) because back when t2/3 was the cap anytime anyone dared suggest something that would lower the TTK they would get thrown to the sharks and now this seems to have almost 100% support.

The only thing bg brings is detaunt imunity and endless ap for himself.
He has a totally useless middle tree with only a sick parry buff.
Still it is a fun class.
If he atleast could shine with his str buff and toughness debuff he would se some more play. Same with Shaman, IB and other niche classes.
Kotbs and chosen doesnt even have to press a button to buff and debuff everyone around him.
That is the core problem.
Removing armor pots and nerfing auras wont make war perfect.
But it gives you room to explore.
What has been suggested here is not a solution.
Its the start of a journey!

Edit:
+have you played brutality maruader? Fun as **** but the armor debuff in savagry and the debuffs + control it brings is the easy choice.
With small changes people can explore more. (one example of many.)