[WL vs Mara] NOT a flame thread but honest Discussion.

[Ugle]

I've proposed this before, with massive negative feedback.

Armor, wounds, heal and resistance debuffs should be available to tanks only. Then you wouldnt have this one class have it all, and tanks would become more than cc and guardbots. There would ofc need to be restrictions for loldps tanks.

[peterthepan3]

agree re marauder: it needs some of its debuffs or damage slightly reduced/given to another MDPS on destro. The actual damage they do is decent/balanced, and the class only begins to overperform when said damage is combined with a plethora of the most potent debuffs in the game.

WL? It is very easy to deal with a WL in 6v6, and it is my opinion that we should look at the class in this environment. Get the pet killed, get the WL ap drained, Not In Da Face! on the WL so his pounce is on an even longer CD - the list goes on. For pug killing, the WL is exceptionally good because of its burst: but it has always had among the top 3 burst in the game, and who cares about pug play? lol.

Out of curiousity: how does the WL overperform? In killing pugs? Topping the RvR meters? Against competent opposition, it can be dealt with relatively easy - watch any of the CW/6v6 videos from any guild on youtube on how this is done - so I really hope you're not arguing from a pug pov as that doesn't amount to anything, imho.

6v6 being active or not is irrelevant when talking balance. How do you get classes balanced in anything less than 12v12 if you're balancing from there upwards? Game revolves around playing as a group/in groups, so we ought to start from the group.


tldr; Marauder slightly OP, WL isn't, killing pugs in RvR to top KDR can be done with any class in the game.

[peterthepan3]

Fair points ^ all the goodies in one bag syndrome, imo.

[roadkillrobin]

No. A game is ballanced around numbers, outgoing dmg vs incomming heals being the big one in this game..
And that is drasticly different in 6v6 and 12v12. 4 dps focusing one target with 7000HP is not the same as 2 does it, even when you're having 2 extra healers the burst becomes unhealble if dps is even the slightest to high. In a scale of 6v6 the burst dmg can be much higher coz there are more headroom for it. But if the burst is the same when having an extra group against the same amount of HP pools it just becomes one shot, unhealeble, unplayeble, wich we're extremly close to getting in this game. That why you can't use 1 group as a core of dps output for PVP. In PVE when fighting against 1000k HP bosses it's a different thing. And when this scales up into warband size AoE counters the efficanty of 8 dps focusing 1 target and that is why it works. 6v6 and 12v12 just can't be ballanced in the same way.

[peterthepan3]

If the 6v6 scene is dead, then lol @ balancing around a non-existent 12v12 scene.

[Penril]

If you can get 12 people (or 24) to focus one target, you deserve to get an easy almost instant kill, regardless of what classes you have.

[roadkillrobin]

Every damn scenario is 12v12. Non existant huh?

[Penril]

Every damn scenario is 12v12. Non existant huh?

Name one 12-man premade in the game. All those 12-man "groups" you see in SCs are pugs. And I believe the first rule in balance is "no balance around PUGs"...

The only premades you see in SCs are 6-man groups.

[roadkillrobin]

Every damn scenario is 12v12. Non existant huh?

Name one 12-man premade in the game. All those 12-man "groups" you see in SCs are pugs. And I believe the first rule in balance is "no balance around PUGs"...

The only premades you see in SCs are 6-man groups.

The numbers are the same tho. Doesn't mather if it's pugs or not.

[Penril]

The numbers are the same tho. Doesn't mather if it's pugs or not.

Except it does.

5. No PUG arguments.

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=11105