Tank Meter in SC's to promote..... Tanks

[Jaycub]

Scenarios need in game VOIP

[Azarael]

The canned replies and backseat moderating will stop, please.

The users of the forum are permitted to comment in a certain way as long as their posts are within the rules. They need not refrain from voicing a certain opinion simply because the OP attempted an occupatio against that. Such is a discussion forum.

[Penril]

Spoiler:

I can see one positive thing with a "tank stat" in scenarios. and that is to help show new players how things works

peole that have played for a while and are atleast half decent at it know how this works, as tank you wont get any high numbers. as dps and even healer you learn to notice if you have a tank guarding you or a dps and if he do a good job and so on.

Most people that know the game find this things to be so obvious that we tend to forget that not everyone has played this game enough to learn this. i did not know when i first started playing in when it was live. But i did learn after a while

For new people a tank stat in scenarios would probably help them see that they if tanks actually do a difference. and if they play dps or healer they will see that the one tanking are atually helping out a lot.

as it is now it is easy for a new player that haven't learned how this game works to see the stats in Scenarios and think "oh **** i am useless as tank. I better get me a twohander so i can do some dame and be usefull" or "damn those morons that run around with SnB why do they even join they are just dead weight, we have to carry them trough this"

Thats the only reason i can see to put in a tank stat. But is it worth all the job? Personaly i don't think so

This is probably the best post in this thread. Ok, you convinced me. However, a few observations:

1) Most new players think: "Tank = guy who holds aggro on NPCs while the real DPS classes do the damage/killing". This kind of new players don't roll tanks for their damage; seeing poor damage stats in SCs won't discourage them.

2) Speaking of new players and SC stats, it is not rare at all for a Tank to have top DB's/damage in a SC in T1. Combine this with my first point and you will realize SC stats can't discourage a new player (at least, until he gets to T2).

3) What if these players don't like doing SC's? I know several people only want to focus on RvR (just check the thread about SC weapons cost and how many people feel "forced" to do SC's). How are they going to improve their guard swapping skills if there are no Mitigation stats in RvR?

So really the only thing we need to do is make sure they learn their roles by the time they hit T2, correct? And make sure they learn it even if they don't do SC's, correct? I think a repeatable quest would be much better for this (much better than adding Mitigation stats to SC's, at least). Something like: "Apply guard 50 times on a friendly target who is under 65% health". This quest grants gold and Medallions. Similar quests could be created for other archetypes. Put one of these guys in one warcamp per tier, similar to the Gears of WAR/This is WAR! quests.

[nydig]

I wish there was a dmg taken stat so i could point to it as proof that i get way to much focus.

Didnt you people get the memo WE sucks now focus / ap drain someone else.

[freshour]

The canned replies and backseat moderating will stop, please.

The users of the forum are permitted to comment in a certain way as long as their posts are within the rules. They need not refrain from voicing a certain opinion simply because the OP attempted an occupatio against that. Such is a discussion forum.

You are the bossman. I was simply trying to keep the same people who derail productive threads off of this one. I realize it was a pretty foolish goal, but the fact that you replied means that anything and everything I could have ever imagined to get out of this thread (a staff member reading it) are accomplished. For that, I thank you and hope you have an amazing day my good sir.

Hope everyone has a nice day, and you guys are more than welcome to continue this conversation on this post all you want with zero interruptions from myself.

[Azarael]

Sadly, there's not a lot I can do for you, having replied, that others haven't already told you. Without the ability to edit the client, or someone with the willingness and knowledge of how to override the original scoreboard, we can't add any stats to the board.

[th3gatekeeper]

You say this... but how would the casual player even know that a "melee healer" don't use DPS healer, you sound silly - is actually not dealing good dps or not healing. I LOVE my melee healer WP and DoK. Sure, its difficult to outheal a healbot backliner, or a pure dps - but I do it very often. I know exactly what it is capable of and do my best to combine it with the best tank for my build which is in fact a 2h chosen using their crippling strikes and other debuffs to synergize with my build. I may only have 90-120k healing that sc. But that means all my healing was not overhealed, in a melee engagement when healing is pretty important, and that I was in fact heal debuffing as many targets as possible.

From your standpoint I can fully understand your 6 man mentality that melee healers have no place, but I beg you to reconsider and play with one who understands teamwork and the functionality and certainly the limitations as to take advantage of the unique skillset they possess. Having done so I believe you will not only change your negative mindset, but maybe even accept them? Who knows. God speed sir.

I didn't mention you specifically, don't know why you got all defensive. But yeah: several DPS healers (i didn't even say WP; i said healers in general) don't give a damn about numbers and just want to pew pew. Just like several DPS tanks don't give a damn about guard or assisting and just want to get DBs. What makes you think adding a stat that shows mitigation will make them improve? Several people yell at them ALL the time in SC's and they don't care and won't change the way they play.

And seriously, stop with the "6-man mentality" thing. Use better arguments than that.

Well for one, a "DPS healer" - while usually doesnt top BOTH charts, often gets VERY high on both damage and healing. Considering you cannot distiguish between healing done on allies versus self healing, its no wonder to me while we see so many of them. A DPS AM for instance looks as says "#1 BW did 120k, I did 100k AND had 80k healing... L2P bro!" This is in error.

A "DPS" tank (notice I didnt say 2h) looks at the scoreboard and says "that scrub only had 15k damage and 1 DB! What a noob! I have 80k damage and 3 DBs!!!!!!" or worse, slots the "damage/3 seconds" aura and pushes out 120k and tops the "damage charts" thinking they are "leet deeps bruh" only to realize their team got utterly destroyed because his damage isnt enough to actually kill anyone and since he didnt guard his team died....

I would actually suggest the CURRENT stats ENCOURAGE poor play and its exactly because of that, that we need to see some changes that encourage TEAM play.

I would honestly prefer to have the "healing" column to show healing on ALLIES (not self healing) - this alleviates the issue of dps healers thinking they are "pro" at both since NOW they will be seen with just "ok" damage and next to zero healing.

Id LOVE to see "damage" only count against targets that actually DIE - but this would be too difficult I think to track.

Id LOVE to see a "guarded damage" stat showing all the damage "absorbed" via guard. Now that DPS tank takes a second look at that 15k damage SNB guy who absorbed 200k damage, while he thinks he was "leet" pushing out 80k damage in an SC and wonders if maybe there is more there to the roll...

Why would you NOT want the stats to actually MEAN something in the SAME way Az wants Renown to be rewarded for REAL things... The stats SHOULD show REAL things... "total healing" means nothing "total damage" means nothing... In fact, on my position, these things DISCOURAGE good play- then people wonder why PUGs are so bad because Sorcs/BWs want to BOmb spec SCs, healers want to DPS and tanks want to DPS.... Why? Because that is what is TRACKED.

Even in experienced Premade groups, I know FIRST HAND everyone looks at the scoreboard and compared death blows, compares damage, etc. While people "REALLY" know the impact of team play, there is ZERO on the charts at the end of the SC that show ANYTHING REAL.

I would actually be in favor of showing next to NO stats rather than the current ones. Id be more in favor of showing REAL numbers like I mentioned above however.

All of this is work... sure... and will it affect "BIS PVP"? No. But it WILL affect how a LARGE amount of PVP games are played and also help new players learn rolls and help those BIS PVP players to gauge themselves on how well they played.

I dont see why you wouldnt be for this. I think it STARTS with a "tank stat" that allows tanks to feel important. I think second you TRY and see if you can remove self healing from the "total healing" stat. renaming it "healing on allies". Then finally if POSSIBLE remove "damage" on a player that didnt actually die. It will show the actual amount you contributed towards that persons death. 2H tanks might not like what they see, less Bomb BWs in SCs... Maybe even less DPS healers as well since I know a TON of their damage actually doesnt end up killing players (well.. lets not get into that point).

[zabis]

I wish there was a dmg taken stat so i could point to it as proof that i get way to much focus.

Didnt you people get the memo WE sucks now focus / ap drain someone else.

In the mod DaScore, it even shows how much each player damaged you, that way you'll know who hates you the most. It also saves every scenario stat screen for later reference.

[th3gatekeeper]

Sadly, there's not a lot I can do for you, having replied, that others haven't already told you. Without the ability to edit the client, or someone with the willingness and knowledge of how to override the original scoreboard, we can't add any stats to the board.

Thanks Az.... You say you cant add stats, what about remove stats or edit stats to track differently?

[zabis]

I would honestly prefer to have the "healing" column to show healing on ALLIES (not self healing) - this alleviates the issue of dps healers thinking they are "pro" at both since NOW they will be seen with just "ok" damage and next to zero healing.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but in the mod DaScore, it shows how much you healed each ally.