Return of Reckoning

Valnak wrote: I remember vids of Runefang + Emperor's Champion + Destroy Confidence oneshotting shaman in t4. Could do similar to whoever shaman was hotting up.

Find a link of that, please, I'm in need of a good laugh

Its to balance out the wl pounce spam =)

albionrare wrote:Its to balance out the wl pounce spam =)

Wl and pounce specifically exists to counter run away

but then a class designed specifically to counter kiters wanst enough to counter shammys and herders

hence RKDs out the ass, triple enchantment shatters, etc


its kinda over the top

TenTonHammer wrote:

albionrare wrote:Its to balance out the wl pounce spam =)

Wl and pounce specifically exists to counter run away

but then a class designed specifically to counter kiters wanst enough to counter shammys and herders

hence RKDs out the ass, triple enchantment shatters, etc


its kinda over the top

some order live dev died by shammy hand during alpha

TenTonHammer wrote:

albionrare wrote:Its to balance out the wl pounce spam =)

Wl and pounce specifically exists to counter run away

but then a class designed specifically to counter kiters wanst enough to counter shammys and herders

hence RKDs out the ass, triple enchantment shatters, etc


its kinda over the top

the justification for a lot of stuff is run away, at least in many players minds, having done a 6v6 against a good shaman in t3 where there is no shatter it is extremely difficult to pin them down as it should be. Shatter should be changed as was discussed for like 20 pages. I do not see pounce as a justification for it though. That is compensation for WL being much less viable than Mara imo.

I feel like the kotb No Escape belongs in this discussion somewhere as well. I agree in player's minds that whenever the subject of order OP comes up, the justification is usually Run Away, Mara pull, BG kd/punt, DoK cleanse. It's obviously much more complicated than that and I certainly haven't fully wrapped my head around it. I just wonder if the stigma of order being "easy mode" will ever be resolved. With so many counters, I don't think Run Away is OP at all especially when any player could have something similar by using Odjira (maybe in the future).

I'm not sure if anyone is following Camelot Unchained but an entire faction (1/3 of the population) is thematically built around quick insertion/extraction/mobility. It's like putting "run away" on a macro scale. Should be interesting

Tklees wrote:. I do not see pounce as a justification for it though. That is compensation for WL being much less viable than Mara imo.

Good WLs pounce on a ranged squishy and they're usually dead before I can get a heal off on them(save a tank still standing around in the backline for one reason or another). Their burst is much higher than Mara and doesn't need 3-4 GCDs of applying debuffs worth of warning.

Gachimuchi wrote:

Tklees wrote:. I do not see pounce as a justification for it though. That is compensation for WL being much less viable than Mara imo.

Good WLs pounce on a ranged squishy and they're usually dead before I can get a heal off on them(save a tank still standing around in the backline for one reason or another). Their burst is much higher than Mara and doesn't need 3-4 GCDs of applying debuffs worth of warning.

Seeing a WL on the enemy roster is a good reason for tanks to not push too far away of their own backline. Not all fights are won just by pushing your enemies as hard as possible; sometimes, you need to apply a little strategy (this is mostly determined by group set-ups).

As the game continues to progress and level up - white lions in general will fade in power/importance while mara will begin to excel (slayer will continue to excel).

Gachimuchi wrote:

Tklees wrote:. I do not see pounce as a justification for it though. That is compensation for WL being much less viable than Mara imo.

Good WLs pounce on a ranged squishy and they're usually dead before I can get a heal off on them(save a tank still standing around in the backline for one reason or another). Their burst is much higher than Mara and doesn't need 3-4 GCDs of applying debuffs worth of warning.

Because the current lvl cap doesn't allow the Mara to get its crit tactic, finisher, and still run thier debuff spec. While WL get thier crit tactic core and for now do great burst. Once 40 comes Mara will have the burst of a WL as well as their debuffs and tank like survival, while WL will proceed to fall off due to higher defense values, a lack of a Inc heal debuff, and a pet that does not scale well.