Return of Reckoning

wargrimnir wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:58 pm Guard has been using attack-specific avoidance for a couple years now, it just shows up as Parry because they weren't able to change the client in the past, or couldn't figure it out.

From what u are saying the change is we now see that the parry does not work rather than parry change ?
Would be interesting if you could say when the client change was made and formula change, looked could not see

But either way something recently majorly affected parry on gaurd ,

Acidic wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:25 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:58 pm Guard has been using attack-specific avoidance for a couple years now, it just shows up as Parry because they weren't able to change the client in the past, or couldn't figure it out.

From what u are saying the change is we now see that the parry does not work rather than parry change ?
Would be interesting if you could say when the client change was made and formula change, looked could not see

But either way something recently majorly affected parry on gaurd ,

There hasn't been a change, someone noticed ranged attacks weren't being parried when their parry buff was running, and that's because Guard uses dodge/disrupt for ranged attack mitigation, which was probably at baseline rates.

Aethilmar wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:54 pm Just want to add an anecdote that even on my shield tank (with heals) I seem to die more frequently before the guarded target does now when they are under pressure...as opposed to they die then I die. Nothing has really changed on my setup (sadly still Invader gear since forever). I assumed it was just some weird stacking of the numbers but will need to pay more attention to the combat logs it seems.

Well the reality is tanks usually recieve less healing from healers than dps.

Have to agree tanks feel A LOT worse now
I have 79% parry and somehow only deflect about 1/12 gjard damage attacks even if they are all melee defendable

hmm play more snb guys ..it hurts less..and maybe recent changes will help to balance differences between 2h order and des tanks in larger scale fights ...my 2h sm didnt work in city anyway.

snb tanks die too fast as well, it has nothing to do with parry

Fyi, all guard dmg is supposed to go against block/parry. Maybe thats what was changed cause your not supposed to dodge/disrupt guard dmg.

Guard damage already ignore all mitigation, it would be silly if now it depends on dodge/disrupt... Guard always had been on block/Parry only, two stats that cause less discrepancies between tanks (and also got far more/easier buffs generally speaking in tanks classes) than disrupt.

Even so, looks like if all avoidances are needed for efficient guard damage, parry is fundamentally wrong here, like max 25% top, that got debuffed by everything that caused the blow (WS, avoidance debuff on the target as well ?).

With more than 28% base parry + 25% skill buff pretty much 100% uptime, I got like 15% guard hits parried on my Swordmaster.
Looks like something is wrong : I should have AT LEAST the +25% buff baseline at minima, not being hit like all my parry chance was from WS...

I read somewhere in this thread that offensive stat only reduce the WS for parry chances, and it's never 0% bonus ; so even with a high DPS stat I should be around 26% minimum for parry my guard hits.
And I got a average of 15% ; it's odd.

This change wasn't noted in any patchnotes back then and isn't definitively how it was on live. At least we know how it works now.
Undefendable skills causing undefendable guard dmg is still over the top and should be changed.

3 things to think about;

1, Attacker strike-through. Sov gear can carry a lot of strike-through for DPS. The avoidance system has been changed a bunch on this server. I'm not positive if stat/gear/tactic/ability strike-through all hits your avoidance the same or not honestly.

2, Abilities tactics that decrease your avoidance. IE Pierce Defenses, Discerning Offense, or WS debuffs. Or shatters/enchantment clears that wipe your avoidance buffs.

3, Straight undefendables. Morales, Rampage, most DPS/Tanks have at least 1 ability that is undefendable. There isn't a way to tell if guard damage was or wasn't defendable(unless you defend it obv) so there could be a significant amount of hits you are counting as failed parries when you never got the check.

Maybe adding something to the combat log to demonstrate this guard damage was undefendable would help to alleviate this feeling, doubt that's doable though.

This is ignoring the fact that you need dodge/disrupt also... That's why I've always stacked as much block as possible.


Lastly, 53% parry(per fenris' example) isn't all that much when strike through(from WS, abilities, tactics, and gear) and when you also get debuffed. There is a reason over capping armor/resis, or going heavy into the negative chance to be crit is a thing. Even more so when almost HALF of your parry is coming from a shatterable enchantment with 5s uptime...

Debuffs hurt, especially when the opponent uses ones that stack(ability-tactic-morale). A SW can knock 25% off your parry chance, and 35% off your block chance vs their attacks(pierce defenses, discerning offense, acid arrow. Not a meta build but not the point). Plan accordingly.