Return of Reckoning

Jaycub wrote:im not saying it's any easier/harder for one side, just that killing a RP is easier than killing a DoK.

That was one of the things I'm sure we would of eventually tried (running double WP) if it became a big enough problem. But then you are making concessions for running IB, because you are playing around the outgoing healdebuff. It's just easier to swap him out for SM, and that was pretty much unanimous which is why poor mountain had to level a knight :^)

its aswell easier to kill a zealot than a wp. so what is your point .

as usual the balance forum transformed into nerf this or this class is op.

Penril wrote:Maybe because he is talking about his ORDER group struggling against destro?

Pull the stick out of your ass. Im not complaining about those tools. Im just replying to his comment since he mentioned Mara pull + M1, and Order has access to those as well (and some other tools like i mentioned).

You are missing the point, he is talking about how non optimal is to run anything that is not melee + double wp/dok and how they get destroyed once morales come up and they get cced to death.

Pointing out how order can do that too is not an argument, is just you being unable to not mention the tools of the other side because somehow you think everyone forgot about them, no one did.

Specially when to that you mention Rkds and other tools from ranged characters which will suffer the same problems as the RP.

So its not much about my stick, its fine there and does its job, its just that you are missing the point about how Ranged low armor characters get trained on.

Arteker616 wrote:

Jaycub wrote:im not saying it's any easier/harder for one side, just that killing a RP is easier than killing a DoK.

That was one of the things I'm sure we would of eventually tried (running double WP) if it became a big enough problem. But then you are making concessions for running IB, because you are playing around the outgoing healdebuff. It's just easier to swap him out for SM, and that was pretty much unanimous which is why poor mountain had to level a knight :^)

its aswell easier to kill a zealot than a wp. so what is your point .

as usual the balance forum transformed into nerf this or this class is op.

1) This is not the balance forum
2) I dont think Jaycub is asking for an IB buff... I could be wrong though!

i would like to see more SMs in orvr, sham has plenty of options i think they are fine and in general the off trees need looked at.

Arteker616 wrote:

Jaycub wrote:im not saying it's any easier/harder for one side, just that killing a RP is easier than killing a DoK.

That was one of the things I'm sure we would of eventually tried (running double WP) if it became a big enough problem. But then you are making concessions for running IB, because you are playing around the outgoing healdebuff. It's just easier to swap him out for SM, and that was pretty much unanimous which is why poor mountain had to level a knight :^)

its aswell easier to kill a zealot than a wp. so what is your point .

as usual the balance forum transformed into nerf this or this class is op.

>double dok meta
>zealot

wew lad

Morf wrote:<snip> Although i am slightly jealous of AM aoe detaunt as you cant be setback meaning you can use big heals and them not end up being 5 second casts but i guess that makes up for the extra 5 seconds shamans get.

Just to clarify here, their aoe detaunts are both 10s aren't they? I vaguely remember (from like a yr back) it being shown in a vid from live that the no setback was for 5s but the detaunt was for 10.

roadkillrobin wrote:

sanii wrote:

roadkillrobin wrote: Zealots really don't need love tbh, it's subjectivly he 3d strongest healer in the game and viable in both small scale and large thanks to it's varity of buffs and morale gain.

How about their dps then ?

Zealots have both a viable AoE dps and ST dps build. dps Zealots were used in bombgroups all the time, and their ST dps is ok.

ST
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=zea ... :5712:5722:
AoE
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=zea ... :5712:5722:

shure on high rr and in descent gear with alot of +crit, and your aoe spec uugh you go for rez debuf and ap rit instead of woi ugh but in mid and low ranks their dps crap cause of low base damage from simmilar abils of other classes.

bloodi wrote:

Penril wrote:Maybe because he is talking about his ORDER group struggling against destro?

Pull the stick out of your ass. Im not complaining about those tools. Im just replying to his comment since he mentioned Mara pull + M1, and Order has access to those as well (and some other tools like i mentioned).

You are missing the point, he is talking about how non optimal is to run anything that is not melee + double wp/dok and how they get destroyed once morales come up and they get cced to death.

Pointing out how order can do that too is not an argument, is just you being unable to not mention the tools of the other side because somehow you think everyone forgot about them, no one did.

Specially when to that you mention Rkds and other tools from ranged characters which will suffer the same problems as the RP.

So its not much about my stick, its fine there and does its job, its just that you are missing the point about how Ranged low armor characters get trained on.

I think it is you who missed the point. Pretty sure Jay and I were talking about IB and tools to get him closer to the enemy healers. Which is why i pointed out the Order tools that can help the IB in his group. The viability of rDPS/cloth healers is a different topic wich (at least Jay and I) still haven't discussed in this thread. So far, it has only been about viability of BG/IB.

Zealote wrote: Just to clarify here, their aoe detaunts are both 10s aren't they? I vaguely remember (from like a yr back) it being shown in a vid from live that the no setback was for 5s but the detaunt was for 10.

Don't know for both but for AM your statement is correct.

I think people are just responding to us based on one post instead of reading the whole back and forth, like the zealot comment.

Im gonna go drink some zippy water hopefully the thread evolves into some new and exciting discussion later.