Any ideas to bring back players?

[Everdin]

...
Not only that, but they can do pretty much anything they want without getting punished, because again, the safety net provided by the game's defensive features (healing/tanking) is simply too strong.

Offense / defense balance is messed up. If it were shifted more towards offense, fights would become more volatile and interesting, the underdog would have a fighting chance, mistakes would be punished harder, fights would involve real tactics rather than imaginary tactics while waiting for a perfect storm, close fights would actually resolve instead of continuing forever in an endless slog, etc.

Tune down healing by ~25% and see what happens to the game.

This would shift the bar to the more organized and experienced players, they will find a way to protect themself, they have more ressources to get them more tanky, while all the rest get stomped hopeless, even if there are healers around.

The only situation where reducing heal would benefit the underdog is if they have no or bad healers but lots of dps, so they eventually can outdamage the healers on the othr side.

It might look like "hey if the healing on the enemy premade wouldn't bet that good we at least could kill one" but the truth is, you would suffer much more from lesser healing

[Farrul]

One would think so if comparing single dots and ignoring all the other skills/mechanics around them. No idea where you pull the numbers from but e.g. 24s dot ofc makes more damage than 15s one but there is plenty time to cleanse it.

Shaman Dots combined with their ability to kite is a plague on the server, for this single reason every noob plays one sooner or later. SW? Struggles and is considered bottom of the barrel by most Order players. Context.

SW can significantly better kite and they got much more CC tools. So it all boils down to shaman healing better than SW and therefore surviving the 1vs1, which in itself doesn't matter at all.

Are we playing different games? In my version shamans get 2 x detaunts(aoe), puddle, Run Away tactic, aoe knockback + snare, lame M1 and yes Hots that makes all the difference. Shaman is a significantly more effective kiter in effect.

P.S. Frequently these shamans are observed kiting several players and getting away with it (the only counter seems to be geared WLs with their unreliable pet out ) whilst SW do their self-punt then pulled in by the choppas and dies (also a frequent sight) . It's in the nature of a dot class to kite well but in this game they combined it with an excessive kiting tool-kit and heals, the result is oppressive and it goes beyond 1vs1 context.

[Panel]

1vs1 matters immensely - it is these encounters that form a players perception of the strength or lack thereof of their character. Constantly being thumped by whatever you run into leads to a "this class is so weak" conclusion. In the larger context of the campaign it is irrelevant but in the mind of the player it creates an assessment of their character sufficient to make them reroll or just quit. Its no use parroting the standard mantra that the game isnt balanced around 1v1 to these players - they will just reply "thats because it isnt balanced at all". 1vs1 is unavoidable - there are so many situations where you will find yourself alone,even if for a short period and should you meet an enemy player who just smashes you the experience will do more to influence your opinions on balance etc than any wb play will. I will go out on a limb and hazard that players 1v1 experiences have been responsible for more player loss than any other single factor.

[madrocks]

Some good suggestion in here, going to chip in my thoughs as this topic picked up pace.

In my opinion:

It is up to the community to provide content to keep players in the loop.

When Max, Dalen and the rest of the team are busy fixing the leaks in the roof and the cracks in the wall, you as member of this community must take care of the house guests and not act like the toxic barking dog that annoys everyone. Especially on the forums!
You as a veteran must show the greenhorns the ropes. That is the only way to keep new players interested.

If you need an example how to act, just look at Zarbix or Fixxer and the other non toxic streamers. I mean this guys.. so much patience.
Explaining the same things over and over again, attracting new players, keeping players interested.
I am not telling you guys to start streaming, but that direction is where we should aim our compass to.



Ideas, bucket list for the community:

More baiting your friends back into the game
More tier one warbands
More scenario premades in all tiers
More holding hands towards the new guys by veterans
Less whining about mechanics
More creativity towards countering mechanics
Less nonsense about realm bias
Less public johnny-depp-trial-style trashtalk about the staff




Suggestions to the staff, things that need correction:

Fix the open/close warband bug, this should be absolute priority, I don't think I need to further explain.
Tier 1 exp gain needs to be corrected and pushed up at least 1.5x
Zone locks in Tier 1 should require 3 Battlefield Objectives, not 4, bring it in line with the rest of the campaign
Warrior Priests and Desciple of Khaine must spawn with book/chalice at level 1
Group heals unlocked by lvl 16 <<<< this one is so important
Block/Parry/Dodge/Disrupt must be part of the pvp bolster system

QoL suggestions:
Renown, Career Mastery NPC in every rvr warcamp and in undercroft/sigmars hammer area next to the target dummies!
Warlord, Invader, Sovereign armor traders next to the other 9000 armor traders in undercroft/sigmars hammer area




The problems we have are not very complex, if you dig deep enough you will understand that the root of an issue is always of a very simple nature therefor the solution is as simple.
Some things I said seem to be very captain obvious. But you know.. I have to remind tanks to swap guard and dd not to stand in the enemy aoe every day too..

[rejndjer]

While maybe you and your friends like to discuss current events and be happy with insulting each other, some other could be offendet and quit because of this.

is there a proof of this? can you show me one guy that got offended by random internet person and left game for it? /mindblown

P.S. gotta agree with amdus guy. i can play dota2 with THOUSANDS of other players. russians, ukrainians, whateer, talk about war or corona or whatever. you can flame all you want, worst thing that could happen to you is to get sent to "low priority" and that happens very very rarely( actually never for flaming). and it is still among most popular online games. how :O

Not by a random internet person, but by a generell toxic environment. I know people left such "Hey feel free to insult everyone"-Games where a racist, homophobic and generally toxic attitude is part of the game experience.

As mentioned before, there is of course the possibility to filter these things out when discussion get toxic, but there is not enough manpower here to realize this. Thats why a strict "Don't talk about those things"-Rule is the best way to make sure discussions dont escalade.

The question is, why should they allow it? If you want to cry out your political or ideological opinion, feel free to do this in your guild/group with your friends, I'm pretty sure there will be no sanctions against you (as long as nobody from this group is reporting it). There is no need to involve the whole server. And if you need a public audience go in a bar and shout to the people there, but if you go in the wrong bar with the wrong opinion chances are high you get banned there too.

you still have given 0 examples. which players? which game(s)?

what do you mean "not enough manpower here to realize" filtering of these things? what things? we got profanity filter recently, and if someone bothers you, and you are adult, then you should mute them. so far i have only muted 2 players in game, and it was because they were spamming their idiotic gameplay changes ideas in public channel. literally never seen any kind of "racist, homophobic and generally toxic attitude" in this game. in fact only online game which i have played that had more chilled out community than this was LOTRO. and iirc there was no fascistic methods of "dont talk about this!!!" there.

first guy who mentioned was making point that they're wasting they're time and energy needlessly. you still have to refute this point. how is this more useful than literally anything else they could've done? like fix the game? maybe fix 3 bugs instead of 2, per week? that would already have been better.

[Everdin]

What players? Friends of mine, beside names wouldn't help you by no chance I will you provide with their names.

What Games? Dota, LoL, CS GO fox example.

Not enough manpower to filter what is okay and who crossed the line.

Gameplay change ideas are idiotic but stupid political opinions not?

There are two possible ways of not wasting to much time on that:

First one is "let everyone say what he wants, we don't give a f..."

Second one is "Everyone has his opinion about politics and current events, but this is no place to deal with it"

Devs decide what way they want to go, and they took the second. As I mentioned before there are a lot of places where you can cry out your opinion as loud as you want, even if you want to stay in your cave, there are a lot of internet platforms where you can say whatever you want, there is no need to do this in a space where it is not wanted/allowed.

[rejndjer]

What players? Friends of mine, beside names wouldn't help you by no chance I will you provide with their names.

What Games? Dota, LoL, CS GO fox example.

Not enough manpower to filter what is okay and who crossed the line.

Gameplay change ideas are idiotic but stupid political opinions not?

There are two possible ways of not wasting to much time on that:

First one is "let everyone say what he wants, we don't give a f..."

Second one is "Everyone has his opinion about politics and current events, but this is no place to deal with it"

Devs decide what way they want to go, and they took the second. As I mentioned before there are a lot of places where you can cry out your opinion as loud as you want, even if you want to stay in your cave, there are a lot of internet platforms where you can say whatever you want, there is no need to do this in a space where it is not wanted/allowed.

dota, lol and cs:go are most popular online games of last 15 years. not really good example i'd say.

if someone spammed every day their idiotic political opinions i'd mute them too. but in reality these 2 guys i muted are not spamming chat 24/7, in all likeliness they spend more time actively playing the game, thus making it more rich. instead of losing 2 players there because i don't like them, i just muted them and everybody is better now, get it?

one guy also posted he got banned 15 days for making a joke like "joe biden is a robot". seriously? you gonna ban people for little political jokes? well ok, i guess we gonna have some players missing then...

[Everdin]

They are most popular, but loosing more players every month then RoR can allow in one year. And beside of that, I'm sure (but can't prove it), that they are not popular because of the fact you can say what you want in the chat.

Not making "a little political joke" ios the problem, but what a little political joke is for one, triggers another and this one starts a fight and five minutes later there are a bunch of people flaming and insulting each other.

We have discussions regarding all topics in our guild, we insult us every day on a friendly base, I have no problem with this, I have problems with the toxicity growing of this if it hits the wrong person.

[facundo7777]

Some good suggestion in here, going to chip in my thoughs as this topic picked up pace.

In my opinion:

It is up to the community to provide content to keep players in the loop.

When Max, Dalen and the rest of the team are busy fixing the leaks in the roof and the cracks in the wall, you as member of this community must take care of the house guests and not act like the toxic barking dog that annoys everyone. Especially on the forums!
You as a veteran must show the greenhorns the ropes. That is the only way to keep new players interested.

If you need an example how to act, just look at Zarbix or Fixxer and the other non toxic streamers. I mean this guys.. so much patience.
Explaining the same things over and over again, attracting new players, keeping players interested.
I am not telling you guys to start streaming, but that direction is where we should aim our compass to.



Ideas, bucket list for the community:

More baiting your friends back into the game
More tier one warbands
More scenario premades in all tiers
More holding hands towards the new guys by veterans
Less whining about mechanics
More creativity towards countering mechanics
Less nonsense about realm bias
Less public johnny-depp-trial-style trashtalk about the staff




Suggestions to the staff, things that need correction:

Fix the open/close warband bug, this should be absolute priority, I don't think I need to further explain.
Tier 1 exp gain needs to be corrected and pushed up at least 1.5x
Zone locks in Tier 1 should require 3 Battlefield Objectives, not 4, bring it in line with the rest of the campaign
Warrior Priests and Desciple of Khaine must spawn with book/chalice at level 1
Group heals unlocked by lvl 16 <<<< this one is so important
Block/Parry/Dodge/Disrupt must be part of the pvp bolster system

QoL suggestions:
Renown, Career Mastery NPC in every rvr warcamp and in undercroft/sigmars hammer area next to the target dummies!
Warlord, Invader, Sovereign armor traders next to the other 9000 armor traders in undercroft/sigmars hammer area




The problems we have are not very complex, if you dig deep enough you will understand that the root of an issue is always of a very simple nature therefor the solution is as simple.
Some things I said seem to be very captain obvious. But you know.. I have to remind tanks to swap guard and dd not to stand in the enemy aoe every day too..

All those changes should be top priority

[GorkaBorka]

1vs1 matters immensely - it is these encounters that form a players perception of the strength or lack thereof of their character. Constantly being thumped by whatever you run into leads to a "this class is so weak" conclusion. In the larger context of the campaign it is irrelevant but in the mind of the player it creates an assessment of their character sufficient to make them reroll or just quit. Its no use parroting the standard mantra that the game isnt balanced around 1v1 to these players - they will just reply "thats because it isnt balanced at all". 1vs1 is unavoidable - there are so many situations where you will find yourself alone,even if for a short period and should you meet an enemy player who just smashes you the experience will do more to influence your opinions on balance etc than any wb play will. I will go out on a limb and hazard that players 1v1 experiences have been responsible for more player loss than any other single factor.

This is a really wise approach.