Return of Reckoning

Penril wrote:
But you don't want to just sit on healers with IB/BG. You play as you would with any other tank, sticking close to your mdps and only push healers when they do. If you catch one, he is going down (inc HD from your mdps, out HD from your BG, superpunt any tank that tries to guard him, use 5 sed KD if needed). These CC tools can also be used defensively if one of your groupmates is in danger.

The most common mistake I see on some BG/IB players is that they break up from their group, trying to be a hero, sitting (alone) on a healer, or trying to land an epic superpunt, all the while their own group wipes. These players should understand that it doesn't matter how many awesome skills you have: your main job as a tank will ALWAYS be guarding your groupmates. On a BO, KotBS, IB, SM, BG and Chosen.

I meant bringing your melee train to their healers and "sitting" on them and trying to kill one of their healers first rather than fighting their MDPS and sending the IB/BG into their backlines to try and catch a healer and drop the debuff... which we have tried the latter and it's just not worth it.

The problem we saw with this is we run WP/RP and destro tends to run double DoK if they can. This means our RP is a prime target and all destro has to do to counter it is kill our RP since they can do it faster than we can kill a DoK. At least in theory like I said we havent tried it out. But we have tried running the IB and having him go in to healdebuff, the problem is im sure destro group is calling it out within second and a KD into superpunt on our one tank on front lines into a CC equals a dead as hell slayer unless we have ID/bellow up.

ok i forgot the duartion since i havent played shammie for a long time but its better than 3 min...but they too have that detaunt when hit tactic dont they?

sablasni wrote:guess ur right sanii i was talking from a solo/pug point of view...nvm than carry on

Just wanted to remind everyone about this (for the future discussions; those rules don't apply to this thread, but still...):

5. No PUG arguments.

Balance is based around classes being played competently. Do not make any argument which involves disparity of skill, gear or specialization on either side. It is desirable when buffing classes or specs to avoid making them PUG killers, but a buff to an underpowered element of the game which renders it or the class more powerful against PUGs is not a problem as long as this element has valid counterplay.

sry didnt know that rule

Zealots and RP have uninterteble flashheals that procs absorbs no need for AoE detaunt. Also GS and EtW are Blessings and not Enchantments and can't be stripped by tanks.

Morf wrote:
Then what needs changing ? all i see ppl saying is they are not viable because of burst/damage output.

From who? There are a lot of potential changes that could be implemented that - contrary to opinion - don't revolve around increasing the damage (at least not to sorc levels as you seem to think!). I don't think this is the place to discuss them, not until the balance forums are up, but simple things like making the pet move alongside you and instacast, larger radius for dmg buff, uncleansable dots and dots on shorter timers/larger ticks, adding some sort of component to a dot that would deter people from cleansing it, etc.

roadkillrobin wrote:Zealots and RP have uninterteble flashheals that procs absorbs no need for AoE detaunt. Also GS and EtW are Blessings and not Enchantments and can't be stripped by tanks.

Chosen and IBs respectively remove blessings and not enchantments

Some tanks get sever blessing, for instance chosen.

But still if you have your buff + a hot that's 3 deep it's protected. Anything from another zealot or DoK will also cover it.

sanii wrote:

roadkillrobin wrote:Zealots and RP have uninterteble flashheals that procs absorbs no need for AoE detaunt. Also GS and EtW are Blessings and not Enchantments and can't be stripped by tanks.

Chosen and IBs respectively remove blessings and not enchantments

You're right.....

Zealots really don't need love tbh, it's subjectivly he 3d strongest healer in the game and viable in both small scale and large thanks to it's varity of buffs and morale gain.

roadkillrobin wrote: Zealots really don't need love tbh, it's subjectivly he 3d strongest healer in the game and viable in both small scale and large thanks to it's varity of buffs and morale gain.

How about their dps then ?

Anyway i also as some people pointed out would prefer first solving some of the overarching issues right now then turning to specific class changes (the ease of armor/resistance stacking to give an example)