[Warrior Priest]Absence of Faith

[magter3001]

If you're in Wrath spec, you won't be using that. You will be using bludgeon. That is your filler. I reiterate: have you ever played a Wrath WP? Are you honestly advocating to use abilities that have a much lower dmg value than the designated abilities per Wrath's tree?
This... that is all I need to know
You will be using Divine Assault, but to call that a sufficient means of healing/equivalent to 'secondary heals' is silly.
You got two primary healers, and you would be the secondary healer... if played correctly. Otherwise you're wasting your utility... might as well play a pure mdps class then.
Grace has been looked at, and has been improved somewhat. However the class will still need work done to it should it perform effectively as a melee healer; this is undisputable.

That is why there are different trees: one for healing; one for melee healing; one for DPS. Each should perform effectively.

It's a class that doesn't need help though, at all... not in T3, nor in T4. Wrath should never do as much damage nor have as many utilities as other mdps which is what you're proposing. Not all mdps have heals, have medium armor, have an AoE detaunt with 0 downtime (actually none of the mdps have that), have an unremovable covenant, cleanse, etc. Some classes don't have one good tree let alone 3. If WPs we're completely uneffective... there wouldn't be anyone playing them in grace or wrath yet you see 2h WPs all the time.

Saying other classes are in greater need of rework is irrelevant. No one is disputing that other classes are not underpowered, but if you do have issues with certain classes underperforming then perhaps make a thread about it and petition for changes?

[Bretin]

So is a melee WP weaker then a melee DOK in a group environment?

IMO the way an IB oath buff a WP is beyond anything a DOK can dream of and having an afk KOTBS is another 20% free crits. Lets simplify and say that is more damage (and heals) for the WP then a DOK ever can get.

Melee DOKs can bring perma snare while loosing some selfheal and an a great healddebuff. The latter requires a tactic slot which means dropping heals, damage or AOE detaunt.

Melee WPs on the other hand buff party wounds, lacks snare and has a weak heal debuff that don't require a tactic. Lets say the rest is really more or less the same or at least not to unbalanced.

So are melee WPs in this context so weak to warrant a 50% healdebuff on 10s CD?

Personally I’d be inclined to say no without having it tied to a tactic slot for the WP.

Note: One could argue that the Weight of Guilt prerequisite should be dropped though.

DoK dmg is superior because of procs and especially because of devour essence.
Watch my stream if you want to see the great impact a DoK has in a melee setup.

WP on the other hand doesnt have so many opportunities to proc procs (less attacks, a pure healing prayer, no devour).
He is more defensive than the DoK, having a parry buff instead of a parry debuff etc..
Please note that the main dmg of DoK doesnt come from crits but from procs, so much for 20% crit hurrrdurr order biased.
The main dmg of WP will never be as bursty as the dmg of a slayer, wl or wh. He just lacks the tools mdps have access to. (flanking, crit dmg, enrage mechanic, high ttps, armorignore).
WP is defensive even when he is played offensively just in comparison to any other mdps.

So, does defense kill enemies? No.
The WP as a 2. dps relieves your grp of some pressure but therefore the pressure on the enemy grp is lower, enabling them to take the initiative and apply more pressure. Seems balanced to me.

If you would bind hd to a tactic slot you are actually decreasing the WPs low dmg potential even further.
Counterproductive. Dok hd as a tactic is justified because you can not cleanse it, it can be applied aoe, on range and with dots.

[Sigimund]

If your argument is that there are other broken specs then I hope the devs get to them soon, but if that is a reason not to fix one spec then you will never fix any of them.

[peterthepan3]

If you're in Wrath spec, you won't be using that. You will be using bludgeon. That is your filler. I reiterate: have you ever played a Wrath WP? Are you honestly advocating to use abilities that have a much lower dmg value than the designated abilities per Wrath's tree?
This... that is all I need to know
You will be using Divine Assault, but to call that a sufficient means of healing/equivalent to 'secondary heals' is silly.
You got two primary healers, and you would be the secondary healer... if played correctly. Otherwise you're wasting your utility... might as well play a pure mdps class then.
Grace has been looked at, and has been improved somewhat. However the class will still need work done to it should it perform effectively as a melee healer; this is undisputable.

That is why there are different trees: one for healing; one for melee healing; one for DPS. Each should perform effectively.

It's a class that doesn't need help though, at all... not in T3, nor in T4. Wrath should never do as much damage nor have as many utilities as other mdps which is what you're proposing. Not all mdps have heals, have medium armor, have an AoE detaunt with 0 downtime (actually none of the mdps have that), have an unremovable covenant, cleanse, etc. Some classes don't have one good tree let alone 3. If WPs we're completely uneffective... there wouldn't be anyone playing them in grace or wrath yet you see 2h WPs all the time.

Saying other classes are in greater need of rework is irrelevant. No one is disputing that other classes are not underpowered, but if you do have issues with certain classes underperforming then perhaps make a thread about it and petition for changes?

i am proposing a 50% heal debuff. Not slayer damage. Anyway I'll refrain from posting here as i have already voiced my 2 c. The opinion of a random choppa who doesn't seem to understand what it is I am proposing doesn't concern me.
if you're using SR in pure wrath, then lul. Stick to solo choppa roaming bud.

[peterthepan3]

Oh and a prevalence of 2h WPs doesn't equate as the class being perfect. I see a lot of engis too.

[Luranni]

order biased #nerf WH

Saying other classes are in greater need of rework is irrelevant.

First, An "order biased" Side Note:
I haven't been back in RoR long and I came with zero thoughts of bias to order or destro; however seeing this nonsense used to shut down debates and dismiss arguments is quite frankly baffling and entirely unfunny and unhelpful to any discussions. (I'm sure it was started as a joke somewhere in response to somebody who did state "omg order bias" but honestly it just looks obnoxious to me, including all the sigs and I can't see that it is conducive to any conversation to keep regurgitating it).

Back On Topic:
The point is WP's are already being looked at and have already received buffs to a hybrid setup while their main is one of the best and most used in organised PvP and always has been.

There's a lot of stuff much more broken in T3 than WPs being able, or not able to dps like a "baws". We were asked to state why we agree or disagree on this change being trialed and with that in mind, context and the bigger picture are extremely important and cannot be dismissed as irrelevant just because it doesn't back up your opinion.

Personally I would love to see a proper, lore-inspired Warrior Priest leading the charge into battle, but dear me there are so many other things that should be looked at first and making that happen is not a few quick fixes by any means.

So perhaps we can all help plan some seriously awesome changes for all classes ahead of T4, rather than squabbling for scraps on one or two.

[peterthepan3]

I agree with you, mate. All classes ought to receive same attention. However, small changes like that in question go a long way in achieving this goal of balance imo.

[Luranni]

I agree with you, mate. All classes ought to receive same attention. However, small changes like that in question go a long way in achieving this goal of balance imo.

Ok so let another class get a trial of something now, WP already got something new to play with .

[Azarael]

I'd like to note that when the balance forum opens, which will be soon, it will be infractable to derail any topic on one class by talking about how other classes need attention first.

[Penril]

Ok. Give WPs their 50% inc heal debuff. I will start a different thread for Doks.

Good luck guys, i sincerely hope WP (and melee healers in general) are finally fixed after so many years. I'm out.