[Knight of the Blazing Sun] Tactics, Builds, Strategies

[Tklees]

th3gatekeeper, nice post.

He has many. One of the people I've flagged to keep an eye on. We see eye to eye on many things. As you know I'm for moving EA up and slice through as well.

Going into a tree should have meaning as scrillian said. "Nerfing" a class does not need to be about reducing what abilities and tactics do. Not if you can restrict them from all being speced into at once, tri spec kotbs/chosen. I think this is a way to fix many of the "OP" classes. But when doing this other tactics will need to be fixed so that there are still viable options.

[Soulcheg]

Not only Kotbs, you travel from topic to topic, and everything you do - "hey, let's nerf this", "hmm, let's nerf that", hmmm, "why don't we nerf that one". You are worm in the apple.

Btw, i kinda giggled, when you start to behaving like "IMMA MUDERATUR, I BAN YA'LL!".

I didnt bring the "moderator" thing to this thread. Someone else did by calling me "nerf-mod". It has been said SEVERAL times that we can continue posting in these forums as regular players, and i'm not about to stop because KotBS-players call me biased or "nerf-mod bruhhh!!!!111". Frankly, the "blah blah blah mod!!!!1" card is starting to get annoying.

KotBS is OP. Maybe it won't get nerfed, but trust me: It WILL be discussed. A lot. I can see 40+ pages of KotBS discussion threads in the future. You guys better start practicing with giving good counters, because the ones that have been given here so far won't float at all in the future.

Ofc i trust you, whiners will always whine, no matter what. Even if classes will be completely mirrored, they still will whine. Right, Pen-and-Paper-ril?

BO is OP, coz triple combo doing insane damage to squishies, he have 2 kind of silence, many other nice things, etc.

WH/WO is OP, coz they are frrrreakin' stealthers, you know, how you can kill him, if you can't see him? It's obviously OP.

BW/Sorcs is OP. Because FLAMEBURNBURNWORDOFPAIN. You know.

SM is OP becoz of spiritual damage, i mean, what's the point in armor then? Obviously OP!

Shammy is OP, becoz' of RUN FREAKIN AWAY, we all know it.

AM is pure OPness.

SH is OP, becoz of insane damage to 1 target, +pet damage.

SW is OP becoz of a RKD. Smart bastards, using this, how dare they, nerf them!

Mara is OP, becoz it's mara, why we even discussing it! OP, purely OP!

WL have Pounce, terrible OPness!

Nerf them into the ground, remove every ability from them, and buff Chosen, becoz he is so WEAK comparing to Knights, poor child, let him rest in peace, then buff him into the heaven!!!!


________________

Whiners gonna whine, haters gonna hate, Penrils gonna theorize at forums.

[Soulcheg]

th3gatekeeper, nice post.

He has many. One of the people I've flagged to keep an eye on. We see eye to eye on many things. As you know I'm for moving EA up and slice through as well.

Going into a tree should have meaning as scrillian said. "Nerfing" a class does not need to be about reducing what abilities and tactics do. Not if you can restrict them from all being speced into at once, tri spec kotbs/chosen. I think this is a way to fix many of the "OP" classes. But when doing this other tactics will need to be fixed so that there are still viable options.

I think we just need to switch all OP tactics to upper end of mastery tree, and buff less useful tactic/skills, so one's MUST choose 1 mastery tree, instead of taking most tasty tactics from both trees.

[Tklees]

th3gatekeeper, nice post.

He has many. One of the people I've flagged to keep an eye on. We see eye to eye on many things. As you know I'm for moving EA up and slice through as well.

Going into a tree should have meaning as scrillian said. "Nerfing" a class does not need to be about reducing what abilities and tactics do. Not if you can restrict them from all being speced into at once, tri spec kotbs/chosen. I think this is a way to fix many of the "OP" classes. But when doing this other tactics will need to be fixed so that there are still viable options.

I think we just need to switch all OP tactics to upper end of mastery tree, and buff less useful tactic/skills, so one's MUST choose 1 mastery tree, instead of taking most tasty tactics from both trees.

I agree. For kotbs specifically it would be DT, EA, and I think a reworked tactic from the right tree. Right now none are "OP". Focused mending is just useful.

[th3gatekeeper]

I agree. For kotbs specifically it would be DT, EA, and I think a reworked tactic from the right tree. Right now none are "OP". Focused mending is just useful.

Yes however Mending could be increased in severity to 25%. In PVP people die from burst damage and are saved with burst healing or "burst" mitigation. So increasing healing 25% is pretty HUGE... 15% is just... useful...

I actually think Unbalancing Attack could be a key to the Glory Path... Its so lack luster right now. If you re work that + put Mending higher ANd @ 25% that might make Glory seem more useful. I know Heaven's Fury USED to be appealing on live because the stagger was 10 seconds. Very arguably over powered but now 3 seconds is underwhelming(trust me I tried REALLY hard to make it work on my Knight). Also, FWIW, Chosens hits 2x harder.. so kinda weird there.

As much as I like EA, it is a major point of controversy and I would rather have it (IMO) be changed into something else and keep Dirty Tricks as its a selfless party buff that requires block first - which seems rather fair to me.

Heck.... ONE idea:

Efficient Swings: "Requires a 2H: Whenever you crit, all members in your party within 100 feet get a 30% increase to AA speed for 10 seconds". SOMETHING like that. Would be FUN! In reality that would be what, 1 more AA in 10 seconds for a 2h Knight? So its actually not a TON more damage....

Then you can change Encouraged Aim to be a self-only crit buff for 10% or something.... Keep it where it is... So now if a SnB tank wants to get this version of EA he needs to slot TWO tactics to give himself (EA) + Group (DT) 10% crit...

now the two (New ES + EA) provide synergy and FUN!

Still not a big fan of Staggering Impact NOT staggering. If this required a 2H, swapped places with Heaven's Fury so that it was an AoE frontal Damage (Atleast on par with other attacks) + Stagger. Then ALL THREE of these could work together well without being OP I think.

10% self crit buff. when crit 30% increase AA speed. + AoE Capstone that staggers = one heck of a super fun 2H knight class that has party utility but also some utility of his own and damage to boot (AA increase would just make a 3.5 sec AA much faster and more fun).

[TenTonHammer]

Except kotbs i already providing 10% increased chance to heal crit

which counters burst with burst heals

on top of that you want kotbs to provide 25% increased heals?

[th3gatekeeper]

Except kotbs i already providing 10% increased chance to heal crit

which counters burst with burst heals

on top of that you want kotbs to provide 25% increased heals?

Fair enough... But its not that much different than 10% crit and 15% healing....

Plus it would require more points be spent in Path of Glory if you made both DT and FM higher in each tree.... You prevent you from getting EA .... So thats a decent tradeoff....

Was just an idea to make Path of Glory more appealing....

[Defiance]

Why should a player be pushed towards going all the way up one tree?

If tactics like DT, EA and FM are going to be moved up, what's going to go there that kills bi/tri specs? If "moving them up and making lower tier options still viable" is the agenda, then by definition, bi/tri specs shouldn't be going anywhere. I can see that these 7pt tacs are seen as the apex of their respective trees, but if you view each tree as a progression of power then having it top out at 7 and go into "meh" territory beyond is a serious problem as it relates to why bi/tri specs are predominant.

Regarding Chosen DPS and Knight 2H. Chosen should have the advantage in this regard. Order and Destruction have themes about them, and Destro's theme is that of offense. Roll a Chosen and try to be as impenetrable as a Knight. You will have a bad time. It doesn't mean Chosen can't be very hard to kill, it just means a Knight dedicated to the same purpose will take a bit longer. Conversely, Glory isn't that great... but compared to Chosen dps, it should still be inferior.

There were some good suggestions from gatekeeper, I'm just not entirely sold on this "moving the 7pts up and making new ones" thing. They're already viable. I wouldn't even push for 25% on FM... add WP/RP or WP/WP chaining group heals... naw, bruh. Look at things 7+, and give people a reason to spec there. Even some of the 3s need help. I'm doubious about the usefulness of Slice Through and Sunfury, whereas I know for certain that Coordination is useful. When limited to 3 or 4 slots, these things should be foundational/more in line with the tree's theme/purpose in a way that isn't, "Gotta wait till T3/T4 till my spec is useful to me".

Worm in the apple, indeed.

[th3gatekeeper]

Why should a player be pushed towards going all the way up one tree?

If tactics like DT, EA and FM are going to be moved up, what's going to go there that kills bi/tri specs? If "moving them up and making lower tier options still viable" is the agenda, then by definition, bi/tri specs shouldn't be going anywhere. I can see that these 7pt tacs are seen as the apex of their respective trees, but if you view each tree as a progression of power then having it top out at 7 and go into "meh" territory beyond is a serious problem as it relates to why bi/tri specs are predominant.

Regarding Chosen DPS and Knight 2H. Chosen should have the advantage in this regard. Order and Destruction have themes about them, and Destro's theme is that of offense. Roll a Chosen and try to be as impenetrable as a Knight. You will have a bad time. It doesn't mean Chosen can't be very hard to kill, it just means a Knight dedicated to the same purpose will take a bit longer. Conversely, Glory isn't that great... but compared to Chosen dps, it should still be inferior.

There were some good suggestions from gatekeeper, I'm just not entirely sold on this "moving the 7pts up and making new ones" thing. They're already viable. I wouldn't even push for 25% on FM... add WP/RP or WP/WP chaining group heals... naw, bruh. Look at things 7+, and give people a reason to spec there. Even some of the 3s need help. I'm doubious about the usefulness of Slice Through and Sunfury, whereas I know for certain that Coordination is useful. When limited to 3 or 4 slots, these things should be foundational/more in line with the tree's theme/purpose in a way that isn't, "Gotta wait till T3/T4 till my spec is useful to me".

Worm in the apple, indeed.

So, its been a while since Ive posted in here. I leveled a Chosen up to 31, got the epic weapon quest reward and stalker set to really test the pros and cons versus Knight and I have to say its (IMO) embarrassing just how much better the Chosen feels over the Knight.

What made me want to do this? This video I took: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTYZJZTFk6I

It shows a MAXED str knight, using both T2 + Runefang to have ~1200 STR CRITS a shaman for <800 damage WITH F.O. Its really just low DPS considering all you give up for a 2H.

Why does Chosen shine over Knight?
1) Spirit Damage - several attacks (Ravage, Rending) deal spirit damage thus hit much harder than a Knights.
2) Suppression vs Shield Rush - favors 2H and MAYBE even SnB too, considering all guard damage can be parried...
3) Crip Strikes - HUGE advantage for the Chosen. On crits making everyone deal 25% less damage. Paired with Rending Blade its pretty crazy...


It seems to me, Crip Strikes should be a KNIGHTS tactic slot, Knights should be dealing Elemental Damage rather than Physical on several attacks... If its true and "destro is about offense" then Chosen shouldnt be given a crit = damage reduction but rather an increase on damage or something.

Basically Knights shouldnt ever go 2H as you lose out on too much and dont offer anything. I was really disappointed in my 2H Knight as I tried to make him work, but he just doesnt bring anything to the table a SnB doesnt do better.

Chosen seem much more suited to bring group utility with EITHER 2H or SnB and I see the only thing a Knight has > Chosen CURRENTLY is the 20% crit spec, where you are just a guard bot.

[Asherdoom]

so in theory a KOTBS 2handed should go glory path right? so far i am testing vengance path and i find myself in good situation in both aoe or single target.

thi is what i am running so fr:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=kot ... ;;;0:0:0:0:

the only defect of this spec is that if someone got heal focus you are hitting just a dummy nothing more.... in 1v1 i pretty much nuked down all melee dps. casters and heaers, if interrupted correctly, pop like pop corns. Tanks should be ignored for life.