More Armor on Witch Hunter Sets

[Evilspinnre]

Disagree, 1 WH in an RvR wb can make a huge difference.

No one cares for WH in warbands because you get deleted and have about 0 AoE (the healing debuff and moral boost for your party from Dragon Gun are good, that's it). If WH were making a "huge difference" in warbands everyone would already know. No one wants that class.

I guess my WB's running with 1 WH frequently aren't that successful, my bad. Giving you melee train a 40ft range AoE armour debuff on a blob before channeling is useless, and hitting 4-5 of their healers with a 50% outgoing healing debuff and KD does nothing I guess. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, will tell the warband!

[Xergon]

Witch Hunter (as Witch Elf on destro) are designed to be Light Armor Melee DPS class. Its not designed to be in front line. Its designed around popping from stealth, delivering burst amount of dmg in the shortest amount of time and if possible killing the target. If you get in danger you have tools like no other class to disengage into safety and repeat your cycle. Thats the idea behind Light Armor class in WarhammerOnline.

Ofc, nothing stops you from trying play it differently, but do not demand performance or gameplay similar to other MeleeDPS classes. If you really care about Armor values, go ahead and slot 126/134 Armor Talis in your gear, with 8 talis 134 you will gain another 1072 Armor so overall you should be at 2272 Armor, thats Medium range armor that you so much want to be.

[Evilspinnre]

Also, the best order city warband composition has 2 witch hunters in it.

[Mez]

You guys on forums are hilarious. You always want balance for classes and realm based around city, a scenario that rarely pops ever now. Or a 5 second morale fort push. Maybe a once a week LOTD. When in reality most changes happen around ranked -- another rare experience for many and one most of us avoid.

By the way, Witch Hunters are still nasty pill to deal with, the last thing they need is a buff in defense when they already so many tools, the best detaunt in the game. They seem fine. Saying they are melee dps and deserve more armor is also asking for a melee snare. There's different archetypes in MMO's. No class deserves anything just because if its into your 'idea' of how your gameplay experience should be. I.e. always better than what it is.

[Hulgore]

Witch Hunter (as Witch Elf on destro) are designed to be Light Armor Melee DPS class. Its not designed to be in front line. Its designed around popping from stealth, delivering burst amount of dmg in the shortest amount of time and if possible killing the target. If you get in danger you have tools like no other class to disengage into safety and repeat your cycle. Thats the idea behind Light Armor class in WarhammerOnline.

I would completely agree with this post if as a Witch Hunter you actually had a strong burst, which is not much the case. From what I've played I get to burst down rather easily a target with a Bright Wizard, a Shadow Warrior, an Engineer, a Sorceress, a Magus, a White Lion, but not so much with a Witch Hunter. It seems to me that this class is a pretty low tier DPS in the game, while at the same time being as squishy or more squishy than the class I've just mentionned. You need to get in melee to deal less damage than a Bright Wizard for example, and most of the time you simply die during the duration of the knockdown that will come onto you (which is why more armor could be an appropriate answer).
What are you supposed to do, stealth out on healers and 3 shot them ? that never happens, they detaunt you, you get stunned, and YOU get 3-shotted by whatever dps that came out to "rescue" their healer. That's about it

When playing a rogue on classic World of Warcraft, you have a rather squishy class, tools to evade, stuns and burst. In this game the "rogue" is squishy, has tools to evade, but no burst, and limited controls. This is just a very inferior version of the rogue from vanilla/TBC WoW.


Finally for the person talking about cities, I do not play cities but I would like to participate in fights during forts and keeps, which are definitely not a peripheral event of the game

[reynor007]

Witch Hunter (as Witch Elf on destro) are designed to be Light Armor Melee DPS class. Its not designed to be in front line. Its designed around popping from stealth, delivering burst amount of dmg in the shortest amount of time and if possible killing the target. If you get in danger you have tools like no other class to disengage into safety and repeat your cycle. Thats the idea behind Light Armor class in WarhammerOnline.

I would completely agree with this post if as a Witch Hunter you actually had a strong burst, which is not much the case. From what I've played I get to burst down rather easily a target with a Bright Wizard, a Shadow Warrior, an Engineer, a Sorceress, a Magus, a White Lion, but not so much with a Witch Hunter. It seems to me that this class is a pretty low tier DPS in the game, while at the same time being as squishy or more squishy than the class I've just mentionned. You need to get in melee to deal less damage than a Bright Wizard for example, and most of the time you simply die during the duration of the knockdown that will come onto you (which is why more armor could be an appropriate answer).
What are you supposed to do, stealth out on healers and 3 shot them ? that never happens, they detaunt you, you get stunned, and YOU get 3-shotted by whatever dps that came out to "rescue" their healer. That's about it

When playing a rogue on classic World of Warcraft, you have a rather squishy class, tools to evade, stuns and burst. In this game the "rogue" is squishy, has tools to evade, but no burst, and limited controls. This is just a very inferior version of the rogue from vanilla/TBC WoW.


Finally for the person talking about cities, I do not play cities but I would like to participate in fights during forts and keeps, which are definitely not a peripheral event of the game

dude, you're wrong, WH in the right build has one of the highest dps in the game
apparently you are doing something wrong, watch one of my latest videos, most of the enemies die for a knockdown

[Sulorie]

What are you supposed to do, stealth out on healers and 3 shot them ? that never happens, they detaunt you, you get stunned, and YOU get 3-shotted by whatever dps that came out to "rescue" their healer.

You make it sound as if you attack alone and have no guard, while doing more than solo ganking in rvr. There would be your mistake.

[Xergon]

Witch Hunter (as Witch Elf on destro) are designed to be Light Armor Melee DPS class. Its not designed to be in front line. Its designed around popping from stealth, delivering burst amount of dmg in the shortest amount of time and if possible killing the target. If you get in danger you have tools like no other class to disengage into safety and repeat your cycle. Thats the idea behind Light Armor class in WarhammerOnline.

I would completely agree with this post if as a Witch Hunter you actually had a strong burst, which is not much the case. From what I've played I get to burst down rather easily a target with a Bright Wizard, a Shadow Warrior, an Engineer, a Sorceress, a Magus, a White Lion, but not so much with a Witch Hunter. It seems to me that this class is a pretty low tier DPS in the game, while at the same time being as squishy or more squishy than the class I've just mentionned. You need to get in melee to deal less damage than a Bright Wizard for example, and most of the time you simply die during the duration of the knockdown that will come onto you (which is why more armor could be an appropriate answer).
What are you supposed to do, stealth out on healers and 3 shot them ? that never happens, they detaunt you, you get stunned, and YOU get 3-shotted by whatever dps that came out to "rescue" their healer. That's about it

When playing a rogue on classic World of Warcraft, you have a rather squishy class, tools to evade, stuns and burst. In this game the "rogue" is squishy, has tools to evade, but no burst, and limited controls. This is just a very inferior version of the rogue from vanilla/TBC WoW.


Finally for the person talking about cities, I do not play cities but I would like to participate in fights during forts and keeps, which are definitely not a peripheral event of the game

First of all, you need to understand that Warhammer PvP is not focused on solo gameplay. Group synergies and coordination are the core basics of pvp combat. There is no DPS in the game that will kill solo (1v1) a Healer who has enough brain to use Detaunt and CC rotation. Totally different story is about fighting other Melee classes or even Range/Casters, both WH and WE has enough tools to fight them on even ground or with even advantage in some match ups.

If you are in group that support you properly in your job, which is go on squishy targets and do as much damage as possible then you will perform very nicely. You compared WH to other DPS classes, yes in a solo environment other classes can peform better OR its much easier to perform on those classes. Giving WH medium armor values, solves nothing in that regard, as i said, if you really want that medium armor you can very easily slot Armor Talis in all gear, use some 3-4 mixes of gear to get good amount of STR and see how you like it.

WH has tools that are designed to kill vs specific matchups. You can spec to be perform well vs caster OR vs melee OR vs healer.

Since Witch Elves are already playable in warbands situations, and Witch Hunters are absolutely not, increasing the armor of Witch Hunters sets could partially answer to the uselesness of this class in big fights by making them more resistant.

In this sentence you said that you struggle in big fights. What do you mean by big fight, is that 6v6? 12v12? 24v24? Or you talking about Random Open RvR where any number can meet any number? If so, then are you in group that support you or are you solo roaming around groups fighting each other, then you pop out to try help/make impact but suddenly u getting focused by others. Well if thats the scenario then im sorry but there is no Design/Change solution to that other than changing your own gameplay and adopt to situations in battlefield. If you cant make proper 2-2-2 group setups, go on and try make 3/4 WH groups that works together, you will have much easier time and you will perform better together.

[Hulgore]

What are you supposed to do, stealth out on healers and 3 shot them ? that never happens, they detaunt you, you get stunned, and YOU get 3-shotted by whatever dps that came out to "rescue" their healer.

You make it sound as if you attack alone and have no guard, while doing more than solo ganking in rvr. There would be your mistake.

I'm describing here a standard scenario situation. I have a much better time playing any other dps in this situation in terms of survival and burst.

If you want to talk about warband fights, then its a quick death by AoE from Choppas/Marauders because I have no armor but I'm supposed to get in the middle of the fight. If I reach for their backlines then I'm too far away from my tank and my healers.

Last of all the solo ganking situation can work most of the times thanks to "repel blasphemy", "confusing movements" and the regen of "sanctify bullets" that makes me tank their damage. I can gradually lower their health points this way. But the solo ganking 1v1 situation doesn't happen that often unfortunately, so there's not much to do with the class from my experience.

I'm going to retake the example of the White Lion : with it I can resist to some point to the ennemy burst, I have strong mobility, very strong burst, I can knockdown and snare, I can also spec for AoE. I don't need to stealth because I can kill my targets by simply charging in.
I do not feel that Witch Hunter represents that much compare to that.


Now to answer to reynor007, I've already watched videos and read some guides, tried several different tactics. I guess that with Fortress Weapons it has become easier to quickly kill low-geared players of rank 40. That doesn't mean much. I can only remember how bad it was during tier 2/3 trying to "assassinate" players of my rank, and compare it to how 5 days ago I killed with 4 abilities a rank 40 Squig with my rank 32 White Lion. I've never watched a video or read a single guide on this class, but it works. I'm not worst or dumber than the average player

[Sulorie]

I'm describing here a standard scenario situation. I have a much better time playing any other dps in this situation in terms of survival and burst.

If you want to talk about warband fights, then its a quick death by AoE from Choppas/Marauders because I have no armor but I'm supposed to get in the middle of the fight. If I reach for their backlines then I'm too far away from my tank and my healers.
...

The situations you describe is where the misconception lies of new players picking WH/WE.

You are not supposed to get into back lines alone in a warband fight, because chances are high, that other healers will support your target.

When you go for backline, then this will be the job of your whole group aka 2nd DPS and both tanks. Then you generate enough pressure to actually kill targets unless enemy tanks get back to their backline as well.

In no case you are too far away from your tanks, because those are supposed to follow you.
People already know they are in combat, stealth is your least concern and them seeing your tanks approaching doesn't matter - you use stealth to apply debuffs, not for hiding.
You don't fight head on with their AOE groups, even if you support your own AOE group, you can use your range to apply debuffs, primarily armor debuff.
You are much better used to assist on their healers and if quick apply no revive debuff on their dead players.
Just don't do this alone!

In scenario, e.g. small scale you are supposed to assist as well, if enemy has heals and tanks, like other DPS as well. Solo WH/WE in enemy backline, when there are multiple other healers to cross heal and CC, are a joke.
Get this "I stealth to backline and kill a healer, because this is my job" out of your head.
You can totally pick on an enemy healer but make sure they have no support, e.g. they are alone.
Even then you will not succeed all the time but this is true in general.