Return of Reckoning

tazdingo wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:01 pm different builds, compositions and tactics work in different sized fights. aoe bombing is naturally the king of wb vs wb. if you don't enjoy this or don't play a class that fits into this, don't join the centre. you don't have to avoid the zerg altogether if there's where the fight is, just avoid the bomb. some classes are very good at surfing the zerg and picking off stragglers. some are very good in small, organized group. so you have both a pub and organized group option for avoiding bomb groups whilst still getting to fight

Well this mind set is wrong imo , classes should be able to play game stay u want. That does not mean I think bomb is the right way to go but just now order WB is restricted to bomb warband as a success route which says that there is a balance issue, order bomb WB kills all , order mele eaten for breakfast ..
So although there might be said realm balance we have a issue within order class value

Acidic wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:09 pm

tazdingo wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:01 pm different builds, compositions and tactics work in different sized fights. aoe bombing is naturally the king of wb vs wb. if you don't enjoy this or don't play a class that fits into this, don't join the centre. you don't have to avoid the zerg altogether if there's where the fight is, just avoid the bomb. some classes are very good at surfing the zerg and picking off stragglers. some are very good in small, organized group. so you have both a pub and organized group option for avoiding bomb groups whilst still getting to fight

Well this mind set is wrong imo , classes should be able to play game stay u want. That does not mean I think bomb is the right way to go but just now order WB is restricted to bomb warband as a success route which says that there is a balance issue, order bomb WB kills all , order mele eaten for breakfast ..
So although there might be said realm balance we have a issue within order class value

ur never gonna have a light armour ST melee stealth class perform as well as a medium armour aoe melee with self heals in large scale. it cannot happen, not without the classes becoming very homogenized, which would be a sad sight

there have been very powerful off meta tactics practiced by large organized groups since this server started. many early events were rolled people (usually order) organizing and doing some broken stuff to win due to their low numbers. ppl figured out how to counter them eventually, as they will with this. it can require re-rolls, take time. it's the sign of a shifting meta and that is a good thing

just think, you have all resources, a custom built WB. destro can surely do SOMETHING to counter a horde of fireclowns. it will just take time to put the pieces in place

It could be that the BW issue is highlighted just now by the introduction of “free cheese” moral gain increase . I am specifically talking about situation now as it’s a dynamic game with changes that keep us on our toes

just think, you have all resources, a custom built WB. destro can surely do SOMETHING to counter a horde of fireclowns. it will just take time to put the pieces in place

This quote is the key point in this thread and the solution. What tactics/specs/classes is EU Destro running to combat EU Order BW Warbands?

Most of the Destro classes are multi-purpose, most of the order classes are specific-purpose tools.

This is the basic issue

I think before nerfing BW, it is important that classes that lacked solid warband options have specs they can participate in warbands with first. After that would be the time to look at how BW and other offenders do and how to shake up the meta so there isn't a clear apex predator

Zaxxond wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:36 pm

just think, you have all resources, a custom built WB. destro can surely do SOMETHING to counter a horde of fireclowns. it will just take time to put the pieces in place

This quote is the key point in this thread and the solution. What tactics/specs/classes is EU Destro running to combat EU Order BW Warbands?

Also there is no horde of fireclowns.
On a good day cntk brings maximum 6.
I think I saw once a deep and dry wb with 8 BWs. At a usual day less.

But overall yes. For a decent order warband you need BWs. Running a Dwarf Warband with Engis, Slayers, Dps Runis between 2 IBs and 2 RPs is fun. But can't beat the pure firepower of an AoE BW.

Short answer, yes

Since we are speaking of destro counters to BWs, anyone know if Discordant Fluctuation is working on every tick of a dot or just the 1st one after the recent disrupt change reversion? It was nerfed a while ago

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24176&hilit=discordant+fluctuation

-Discordant Fluctuation - Will now only proc on damage received not defended.

and the logic for that was because it was now procing on every dot tick instead of just the application after the first time disrupt got changed to enable defense of every dot tick.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24176&p=270985&hil ... on#p270985

so if it's currently not working on dot ticks and also not procing on damage defended then it might unintentionally be in a weakened state which is bad news for destro trying to counter BWs. (not that this would matter much to an organized M2 bomb band but every bit helps)

All viable Destro classes which you can use to wreck the hell out of a fireclown bomb:
Sorcs with ranged bomb
SH with BadGas to screw their healers from keeping them alive
Choppa so their formation breaks and their bomb pressure is spread all over the place
Maras so they cannot reach M2 or are ST pulled from herd and die outside of it
WEs going after their healers or straight up bursting down isolated BWs
Magus, massive ranged pressure + Rift tearing apart their formation
Zealot, massive Armor + Corp debuff increasing melee + Sorc dmg, Winds breaking up formations
Chosens with anti-magic tools
BO with Block channel, and massive wounds stack

you have shitton of tools for dealing with BW bombs
did the organized destro warband guilds ever go "aaaargh we cannot kill the BWs"?


Think also this, considerable portion of Destro WB utility arsenal is aimed at countering BW bomb, eventually our Devs will make other Order classes more useful for Warbands... then you will notice that you don't have similar arsenal for dealing against SWs, WLs, WHS, Engis, Slayers - and then you will think "oh how easy were the days when all you had to was to build a WB around countering BWs".