Return of Reckoning

ID is also really strong for single target yes. Shows how balanced the skill is I guess At least is can be cleansed on RoR. But I personally dont think balance should be looking at mirror classes. But rather 1) competetion within realm and 2) optimal setup of order versus destro. This can be done for small and large scale seperately. And if you do that then both Slayer and Choppa for small scale are similary good in my opinion.

Personally, Rampage is only really good on tanks. Don't get me wrong, it is GREAT against Tanks. But it is less useful against the classes you will be targeting the most, since they have low Parry as it is (and no block, due to no shield). Usually when targeting a mdps, they'll Parry at least one blow during the fight. That's all a Choppa needs to increase their nuke potential by a lot with guaranteed crits.

So, I feel Slayer is better at shredding Tanks, and Choppa is better at killing squishies. But both are only minor, they're still both good and viable classes that dish out a crap ton of damage. Their only weak point is if they get caught off-guard before hitting 25 Rage. Enemy's goal is to kill Slayer/Choppa in under the 3 seconds it takes to get to 25 Rage.

I dont agree... rampage is very good versus all mdpers, maras,choppas,WEs: everyone is running high parry these days...I run 50% parry, most maras run 35 - 40% parry , choppas the same, arvg WE runs 30-40% parry. IMO The crit tactic from choppa is not that good also, atacks need to be defended ..I just dont like, pros mdps always looking for the back of players.

ID is considered a pulsing direkt damage effect, so it can proc everything that other DD effect can on each pulse. So when you aply it to the main target that target is gonna get hit by Autoattack, Abillity damage and ID that all are able to proc aditional damage ticks in one and the same timestamp.

The DD pulsing effect has for some reason been removed from both Gloom of the Night and Bleed Em Out. Yes there's actually a reason to why BeO costs 45 AP and GoT has a 2 sec cast time and they both do mediocre base damage.

It's not a good idea to directly compare skills in isolation.

You need to consider the whole tree and the complete builds available.

I don't think it's useful to compare the entire tree, at least not the speccable Morales. They are completely irrelevant. I have limited PvP experience on Choppa, and what I seem to remember is that Bleed Em Out is useless, lol. Fun to smash **** with a 2-hander though.

Fey wrote:I don't think it's useful to compare the entire tree, at least not the speccable Morales. They are completely irrelevant. I have limited PvP experience on Choppa, and what I seem to remember is that Bleed Em Out is useless, lol. Fun to smash **** with a 2-hander though.

I dont think any class bothers with rank 4 morales.

2hander for life! Hate these cookie cutter dual wield builds

Fallenkezef wrote:

Fey wrote:I don't think it's useful to compare the entire tree, at least not the speccable Morales. They are completely irrelevant. I have limited PvP experience on Choppa, and what I seem to remember is that Bleed Em Out is useless, lol. Fun to smash **** with a 2-hander though.

I dont think any class bothers with rank 4 morales.

2hander for life! Hate these cookie cutter dual wield builds

There are some that work in specific setups, but not in small scale.

Fallenkezef wrote:It's not a good idea to directly compare skills in isolation.

You need to consider the whole tree and the complete builds available.

Except as a whole choppa and slayers skills are virtually identical and the points where they are different slayer almost consistently has a superior ability

Rampage > Keep on choppin, the lack of ap is never an issue in grp play and their are FAR better exhaustive ability options

Devestate and spell breaker > Tired all ready and no more helpin, no more helpin is garbage in the face of the fact that soul killer exists, if you want you party to run outgoin hd BG has a verion that essnetially cant be clensed and triple debuff WP for additonal debuff value

Tired already yeah that might be nice but BO can do the same thing with NiDF

neither feel worth droppin rage for

Bleed em out > cleft in twain yeah but both abilities are underwhelming tbt and not worth getting

Shatter limbs vs Chop fasta

Formost the value of the latter ability has always been questionable due to its severly long 2m cd and was only good for the WB play but not that BO can provide it on a 20s cd and addtionally since chop faster no longer synergizes well with sorcs the value of the ability is even more dubious

Where as SL is still very good for warband play

ID vs GTTC!

ID is great, GTTC! is garbage a piss poor rng pull that requires you to hit targets, if you want to pull specific targets you had TE from mara, if you want to mass pull targets in orvr you have Rift both can be don in a safer manner than GTTC!

Slayer has multiple builds avalible the can go skaven slayer for id and then into troll fro rampage + inc hd

they can go into 2h for spellbreaker + devastate then into troll

or they can do troll fro RoA , inc hd, rampage then just dump points into giant or skaven

Choppa has a gimped AoE tree wrecka is for all intents and purposes garbage

they have only one viable build savage for lifetap, inc hd and just rest of the points into hitta

Axerker wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:

zumos2 wrote:Aoe wise Slayer is definitely superior. But for small scale choppa is a perfectly good class. Also you shouldnt try to compare Slayer directly to the choppa. They have different classes around them to make comps and to compete with. Choppa/Mara is still one of, if not the best melee train setup for destro. So if you like the choppa, just go for it.

The " comps" built around them are not diffrent

Both need a pocket guard, healer and armor debuff

Additionally in small scale slayer is still superior to choppa due to having acess to rampage and ID which gives them superior single target pressure potential

What is ID? Inevitable Doom is the only skill I saw with that acronym, but that's the rune that just blows up for small AoE damage every 2 seconds, so I don't think that's the one you're talking about.

For Rampage, this is definitely a really, really good skill. But it plays a different part than Choppa. Choppa get the tactic for 100% crit for 3 seconds whenever they are blocked/parried, so I don't want the enemy to have no chance to block or parry. Rampage is better for tank-shredding, but Choppa's crit tactic is better for squishies when they randomly parry an attack.

Personally, Rampage is only really good on tanks. Don't get me wrong, it is GREAT against Tanks. But it is less useful against the classes you will be targeting the most, since they have low Parry as it is (and no block, due to no shield). Usually when targeting a mdps, they'll Parry at least one blow during the fight. That's all a Choppa needs to increase their nuke potential by a lot with guaranteed crits.

So, I feel Slayer is better at shredding Tanks, and Choppa is better at killing squishies. But both are only minor, they're still both good and viable classes that dish out a crap ton of damage. Their only weak point is if they get caught off-guard before hitting 25 Rage. Enemy's goal is to kill Slayer/Choppa in under the 3 seconds it takes to get to 25 Rage.

that tactic is a joke (3 sec mean max 2 skill based on a skillw hich requrei yout o be bheind to hit target) and work only for those mastery skills which are all st; rampage work for EVERY slayer skill and allow slayer to gain for free (compared to a tactic tax) a comparable meccanic bonus while not suffering from meccanic malus.
Between that they get ID and SL ..... idk where choppa should compare; the same st build choppa can do slayer can do better and do it AOE.

choppa st CD increase
slayer aoe CD increase (more ppl hit more it debuff(lol? should be the opposite or 2 sec staple and this is the same for squig)

choppa have a crit "dmg" tactic while slayer have a 50% AA speed tactic. Slayer clarly win as the more attacks mean more procs and more crits and faster burst in small scale.

all of this slayer can do it in dual weild which is clearly what most slayer would prefer since 10% parry in melee train vs melee train save your life.

what choppa gain is a aoe rng pull on the aoe mastery which is nice only for gank/small scale which then is on the wrong mastery for it..and just leat aside choppa fasta....

slayer can do everything choppa can 100% better, is not a mistery why in live mara/slayer were the main realms DD

One telling thing I can say about a Choppa, they never worry me.

Running a Slayer you have a list of threats in your head, kiters on the top. I have never worried about a Choppa.