[Engineer] Auto Attack/range and some other stuff

[Yamashiro]

Think Aza stated a few times that such problems (armor mitigation vs physical rdps) won't exist here. Hoping it is true!

At this point I really think that it might need to be a tiered system with different caps for different armor types.

But currently for prdps in a premade setting you can be completely shut down due to enemy comps.

As an engi /sw facing chosen - mara - bo - dok - zealot or some combination of that is awful. You face at least 65-75% mitigation on everything then add in toughness, and debuffs. A 3k snipe turns into a 400 crit with 2.6k mitigated. Even with a WL debuff it still isn't functional with the best WS spec.

It is the same for SH when they hit WL groups order side. It's soul crushing at times. It really is.

Oh really you have a armor reduction yourself and tell me you face 2.6k mitigation. Pic or it didn't happen or stop hitting defftank....
+ Generally people have more disrupt than dodge.
I don't get it. I would be glad to have a second stat to go for because you hit the soft cap very quick. How often do I face people with 50%+ mitigation after resi debuff (due to kotbs running around everywhere) and there is nothing I can do to lower it further. Then go further and compare some of the core skills both have and you find skills on engi I'd love to switch (Focus fire 3s canalized dmg vs Blue mutating fire, the 10 trillion s long cast which will just be disrupted anyway)
+The engi has THE best moral set vs magus who has the same crappy **** every other caster gets.
If you bring the argument "well armor will rise and rise" okay I get it it would suck but it's not the case now and they said this shouldn't be a problem in the future. Therefore armor will rise slowly and together with ws to compensate.

You can see balance fairly easy by comparison of the magus pop. vs engi pop. and you will find a huge amount of active engis vs few magus players.

Starting with disrupt and dodge from a destro perspective Deft defender gives both 18% disrupt and dodge there is currently no order character who slots disrupt in his meta spec except for wh who could remove the auto attack tactic for vindication and put on disrupt trinkets + 20 points into deft defender or wp with exalted defenses + shield of faith which is fairly niche.

If you're overcapping int may I suggest you to remove Endless Knowledge?

The caster M2 puts you as a magus into the position of having a decent burst phase with mutating blue fire and bolt of change having their cast halfed into exactly 1.5s whilst also immune to interruption. And m3 is a 9 sec stagger do I have to say more? Combined with a sorc(which has very good synergies with a magus) as 2nd dps you can disable 2 healers for 9 sec and let a chosen slow and punt them later.

Then there is Magic Power that will come in later as secondary stat with the glyphs and as procs.

And in the end you always can use different talismans to improve your def if your off is capped.

[Glorian]

...

You can see balance fairly easy by comparison of the magus pop. vs engi pop. and you will find a huge amount of active engis vs few magus players.

Because Engi is a dwarf with a handgun that makes boom. The other one is a guy on a disc in a Pyjama.

Also population doesn't mean skill or utility. 3 glascannon rifle Engis in an SC who doesn't coordinate fire and its game over.
AAND we have there Nuclearpotato the super magus who had his kill ratio of 120/0 in rvr. No glascannon Engi with guard and pocket heals came near this.

Because magus can kill everything. Armor or not.

[peterthepan3]

That's because there isn't an active ST DPS Engineer on-par with Nuclear (skill-wise). There's quite a few good Magi out there, but the majority of Engineers don't seem to be a threat (most seem to be tinkerer/lol specs). Make friendly with a good WL, pick a target, and GG - but I don't see this happening.

If Svarz/korze/simtex/halhammer/that enigma dude with an engineer, played an engineer actively, you'd see the same results.

[Tankbeardz]

...

You can see balance fairly easy by comparison of the magus pop. vs engi pop. and you will find a huge amount of active engis vs few magus players.

Because Engi is a dwarf with a handgun that makes boom. The other one is a guy on a disc in a Pyjama.

Also population doesn't mean skill or utility. 3 glascannon rifle Engis in an SC who doesn't coordinate fire and its game over.
AAND we have there Nuclearpotato the super magus who had his kill ratio of 120/0 in rvr. No glascannon Engi with guard and pocket heals came near this.

Because magus can kill everything. Armor or not.

With a good pre-made, farming pugs in the lakes isn't that difficult unless you are completely overwhelmed by numbers. Engi can put up the same numbers in the lakes with a great team. I think my sub-40 engi, at the time, with a decent supporting cast was up to like 60ish and - 0 with a very low NA population. You also fail not notice that Nuclear is an exceptional player and usually has a great supporting cast with him that are assisting their targets.

Engi kills due to its burst speed and, lets face it, superior morales. Sure, overall damage is lower when hitting armor targets, but the rate that you can cycle the burst is much faster.

[peterthepan3]

Forgot to mention that this dude on Engineer with a team carrying him would also get such numbers! ^

Both classes perform well in the right hands, and with good assistance.

[Valfaros]

Because Engi is a dwarf with a handgun that makes boom. The other one is a guy on a disc in a Pyjama.

Also population doesn't mean skill or utility. 3 glascannon rifle Engis in an SC who doesn't coordinate fire and its game over.
AAND we have there Nuclearpotato the super magus who had his kill ratio of 120/0 in rvr. No glascannon Engi with guard and pocket heals came near this.

Because magus can kill everything. Armor or not.

Well what 1 guy in 1v1 can do says nothing about balance over all. However population doesn't say a lot more but people tend to hop on classes that perform better. I don't say this is all. Style definitly does contribute but without doing polls you can't really say how many people play magus/engi because of how they look. What you can say/see is e.g. a rising AM/shaman pop and less doks/wp after ab ex changes and it's so obvious that you don't even have to run polls.

The caster M2 puts you as a magus into the position of having a decent burst phase with mutating blue fire and bolt of change having their cast halfed into exactly 1.5s whilst also immune to interruption. And m3 is a 9 sec stagger do I have to say more? Combined with a sorc(which has very good synergies with a magus) as 2nd dps you can disable 2 healers for 9 sec and let a chosen slow and punt them later.

Immune to interruption; except you get punted/pulled^^

+Try doing anything when having engis in the enemy team which will just double your cast time for the entire sc making a heavy casting based class like the magus completly useless.

9s stagger do you really think anything will be staggered for 9s. Let's say you don't get dmged (lel right...) there is a ability called Shock Grenade you might wanna use it then...
The moral itself is a joke it's either a 1.2k finisher (therefore you want to apply as much dmg as possible=break the stagger again) or a stagger to a target you don't want to dmg anyway. How stupid is that.
I might wanna compare to engi M3 30s stackable, uncleansable 1400 armor reduction with 2400 dmg. So basically over 2k armor red. with any other armor debuff on the target if you can't kill it then nothing is going to kill it.

[Yamashiro]

Because Engi is a dwarf with a handgun that makes boom. The other one is a guy on a disc in a Pyjama.

Also population doesn't mean skill or utility. 3 glascannon rifle Engis in an SC who doesn't coordinate fire and its game over.
AAND we have there Nuclearpotato the super magus who had his kill ratio of 120/0 in rvr. No glascannon Engi with guard and pocket heals came near this.

Because magus can kill everything. Armor or not.

Well what 1 guy in 1v1 can do says nothing about balance over all. However population doesn't say a lot more but people tend to hop on classes that perform better. I don't say this is all. Style definitly does contribute but without doing polls you can't really say how many people play magus/engi because of how they look. What you can say/see is e.g. a rising AM/shaman pop and less doks/wp after ab ex changes and it's so obvious that you don't even have to run polls.

The caster M2 puts you as a magus into the position of having a decent burst phase with mutating blue fire and bolt of change having their cast halfed into exactly 1.5s whilst also immune to interruption. And m3 is a 9 sec stagger do I have to say more? Combined with a sorc(which has very good synergies with a magus) as 2nd dps you can disable 2 healers for 9 sec and let a chosen slow and punt them later.

Immune to interruption; except you get punted/pulled^^

+Try doing anything when having engis in the enemy team which will just double your cast time for the entire sc making a heavy casting based class like the magus completly useless.

9s stagger do you really think anything will be staggered for 9s. Let's say you don't get dmged (lel right...) there is a ability called Shock Grenade you might wanna use it then...
The moral itself is a joke it's either a 1.2k finisher (therefore you want to apply as much dmg as possible=break the stagger again) or a stagger to a target you don't want to dmg anyway. How stupid is that.
I might wanna compare to engi M3 30s stackable, uncleansable 1400 armor reduction with 2400 dmg. So basically over 2k armor red. with any other armor debuff on the target if you can't kill it then nothing is going to kill it.

The Engineer pull has a range of 75 ft if you get pulled in you probably have to work on your positioning you should opperate in 98-125 ft from your target. Also free immunity so /thank.

Well concussive mines is actually somewhat of a two-edged sword since its intention is to stagger to create a burst window and then slow the healers to increase your chance of killing something. But you have to drop a tactic which you can't.

The 9s stagger is still great the problem is then a community problem or sc design. of 2 grps instead of only 1.

From my exp. no engineer or magus uses the Shock Grenade good luck finding the one.

And if you wanna know a trick with the shock nade from an expirienced engineer, which takes quite a bit of skill to execute: You can shock nade your turret and fend off a stagger attempt because the nade has a travel time which if timed right still flies when the stagger goes off since mines and nurgles have a delay of like 1.5 sec. Also works on friendlies just work on your predicition skills.

[peterthepan3]

^ reminds me of the trick in WoW where you'd SW:D as a SWP right before a polymorph attempt. interesting, did not know that.

[Tankbeardz]

From my exp. no engineer or magus uses the Shock Grenade good luck finding the one.

On live I used it all the time since 9s staggers were the norm. On here...there really isn't much point.

[Yamashiro]

^ reminds me of the trick in WoW where you'd SW:D as a SWP right before a polymorph attempt. interesting, did not know that.

Haha another fellow arena junkie I assume, good SP could even break repentence, blind or sap. I miss the ridiculous comp names like african turtle cleave or lsd.^^ Great pvp times, will never come back times, now I will cry times. Sorry for the nostalgic offtopic.