[Black Guard]2H Disparity between IB?

[TenTonHammer]

The latter half of that question I'm fairly certain will be discussed heavily once the balance forums come out

The implications of the fixed tactics need to be examined fully in t4 first

The class has a very clear and present weakness in that it has a pretty high base chance to be crit which can be countered by investment into FS

I don't personally like how tb is set up to be a low cooldown long duration highest wounds debuff with no real requirements unlike other wounds debuff

I wish some of the stuff in Bg could be shifted around the class has 2 narrow playstyle options of either dps or deftard

[Tklees]

The latter half of that question I'm fairly certain will be discussed heavily once the balance forums come out

The implications of the fixed tactics need to be examined fully in t4 first

The class has a very clear and present weakness in that it has a pretty high base chance to be crit which can be countered by investment into FS

I don't personally like how tb is set up to be a low cooldown long duration highest wounds debuff with no real requirements unlike other wounds debuff

I wish some of the stuff in Bg could be shifted around the class has 2 narrow playstyle options of either dps or deftard

I'm sure it will be as well. My knowledge on BG is limited tbh and this thread has done a lot to get me up to pace on at least a basic understanding of the class. But they are in deffinite need of a look come t4 it seems. Because I agree with you that at this point BO does outshine BG with chosen holding the top spot in overall versatility and group use.

[Karast]

The latter half of that question I'm fairly certain will be discussed heavily once the balance forums come out

The implications of the fixed tactics need to be examined fully in t4 first

The class has a very clear and present weakness in that it has a pretty high base chance to be crit which can be countered by investment into FS

I don't personally like how tb is set up to be a low cooldown long duration highest wounds debuff with no real requirements unlike other wounds debuff

I wish some of the stuff in Bg could be shifted around the class has 2 narrow playstyle options of either dps or deftard

But isn't that the same for most classes? There are not many classes out there that have more than 2 solid builds, if that.

[Sulorie]

All a BG can do is useless, because MRD can do it better?
Now you want to tell us, that every group has a MRD?

Is this the reason why every premade runs the exactly same setup?
You don't agree with this statement? Me neither.

[TenTonHammer]

All 6 mans that I encountered that I remember ran atleast 1 or x2 maras

Because quite frankily Mara is the apex destro mdps with the various obviously know + point attributes but mainly the fact that wp can't clense it's stuff

[Gobtar]

Yes blackguard has less synergy with the mara because of redundancy. BG do have some synergy with a choppa, and WE. As soon as you throw a mara into the mix, you are basically a glorified CC/guard bot.

The major problem I find with what the BG debuffs is that the mechanic is more penalizing you rather than rewarding you.

Armour debuff needs to be at 100 hatred to use effectively and it's on a 5 sec CD...the BO can just spam it, it's at full strength, which is only mildly worse than that of the BG at full hatred. The AP drain, as mentioned, laughable, you need 90 hatred just to drain 30 APs. I understand that you want the mechanic to be relevant but I just don't get why you have to put more effort for a mediocre result.

The chosen auras likewise add further insult to injury. the BG has to expend hatred to use their toughness debuff, and the hit has to land...while the chosen...you know is just present, and he is handing out sick buffs. (the resist buff is one of the main reason chosen are a must include, yay counterplay)

The IB runs into the same problem with their Grudge spending toughness buff...and you see the mirror (one debuffs one buffs)...but if you are going to have to spend resource just to debuff I would like the debuff/buff be alot more impressive. To be fair, the tooltip damage of these hate/grudge spending abilities is incentive enough to use the skill from a DPS standpoint, but not a utility one.

The best precadent of handing out an impressive buff bound to a mechanic is the willpower buff from Brutal Smash/Inspiring attack. I would like to see mechanic bound buffs take after this...i.e decent at lower numbers, and amazing at 100% grudges/hatred. Likewise having an amazing toughness buff/debuff would be solid reason to expend hatred/grudge...Opportunity cost should be a real factor of the mechanic.

But even then, there is ways an IB can be useful with buffs that is not touched on by the knight, or even synergies with the knight. Spammable armour buff, Crit gain, bubble for you and a friend that gives grudges back, initiative + parry buff. The IB takes the buddy system and gives it a gold star.

As I mentioned previously, the BG was a very different class back when the game started...it borrowed some tools from the IB to balance it out, because Mythic decided mirroring was the easiest and best way to fix the stupid class.

It lost some of it's flavor and several of the originally BGs strong tools were mirrored to be knock-off IB abilities. I don't think further mirroring is the way to go, nor do I think that was ever desired in this thread. Moving forward I would like to see the BG become more of its own creature instead of living in the IBs shadow.

[Dreadspectre]

Somewhat related but I decided to make a BG last night.

I have never, NEVER, in my life, seen my attacks parried so many times as on my BG in the starter zone.

I kid you not, 3-4 parrys in a row from level 2-3 mobs. I also hardly blocked at all. I didn't have this problem at all on my CH/BO, I plowed through mobs. I actually had to stop and regen health on my BG.

Like..it was too the point that I felt something was bugged with BG's.

We'll see if I stick with it, still finishing leveling my Zealot and I do enjoy my BO/CH as well, I just kind of like the Halberd thing though.

[peterthepan3]

Somewhat related but I decided to make a BG last night.

I have never, NEVER, in my life, seen my attacks parried so many times as on my BG in the starter zone.

I kid you not, 3-4 parrys in a row from level 2-3 mobs. I also hardly blocked at all. I didn't have this problem at all on my CH/BO, I plowed through mobs. I actually had to stop and regen health on my BG.

Like..it was too the point that I felt something was bugged with BG's.

We'll see if I stick with it, still finishing leveling my Zealot and I do enjoy my BO/CH as well, I just kind of like the Halberd thing though.

..you won't block for **** at level1. And you will miss a lot at times at low lvls vs higher mobs/equal. Nothing to do with the class.

[Dreadspectre]

Somewhat related but I decided to make a BG last night.

I have never, NEVER, in my life, seen my attacks parried so many times as on my BG in the starter zone.

I kid you not, 3-4 parrys in a row from level 2-3 mobs. I also hardly blocked at all. I didn't have this problem at all on my CH/BO, I plowed through mobs. I actually had to stop and regen health on my BG.

Like..it was too the point that I felt something was bugged with BG's.

We'll see if I stick with it, still finishing leveling my Zealot and I do enjoy my BO/CH as well, I just kind of like the Halberd thing though.

..you won't block for **** at level1. And you will miss a lot at times at low lvls vs higher mobs/equal. Nothing to do with the class.

Still happens more often than I recall on my BO/CH even at level 6. Maybe it's the self buffs BO/CH get making it easier. I know one instance isn't a good sample size but it struck me as just overwhelmingly odd, especially in comparison to my two other tanks runs through the same content.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand!

[bloodi]

Yes blackguard has less synergy with the mara because of redundancy. BG do have some synergy with a choppa, and WE. As soon as you throw a mara into the mix, you are basically a glorified CC/guard bot.

The major problem I find with what the BG debuffs is that the mechanic is more penalizing you rather than rewarding you.

You are being straight up ridiculous.

One thing is pointing out the flaws and another is this patethic exageration that is going on here about the BG.

The only tank with detaunt immunity, a 5 secs kd, superpunt and so on, is now a glorified CC/guard bot.

Come the **** on, get a grip people.