[Warrior Priest]Absence of Faith

[Atropik]

i try to make a class viable to provide more than 1 trick pony spec

But it looks like you are asking for a buff on a new toon - that's why I vote no.
And this change, absolutely harmless change for destro, except situation when you are the WP, and your group still support you, - the next reason I vote no.
I vote no, because we'd better give some love to other classes and not only WP, he is really fine ingame right now, pony spec? Some guys have no specs at all, and almost every class got only one.

[Bretin]

No need to add that. I already posted my points for Aza... and can post more if need be but I think this is enough to delay any change to the WP for balance sake. Off to bed, and off the thread. /bye

i'm sure he will delay the change because of the (0) points you made and the wide knowledge you have proofed :p

gn and gl with your nerf pounce thread

[magter3001]

No need to add that. I already posted my points for Aza... and can post more if need be but I think this is enough to delay any change to the WP for balance sake. Off to bed, and off the thread. /bye

i'm sure he will delay the change because of the (0) points you made and the wide knowledge you have proofed :p

gn and gl with your nerf pounce thread

I don't even have a nerf pounce thread but try harder.

[Bretin]

I don't even have a nerf pounce thread but try harder.

you will have one in future, i'm a soothsayer

But it looks like you are asking for a buff on a new toon - that's why I vote no.

nope, my next toon will be an engi for sure. already in the work.

[Atropik]

[quote="Bretin]
nope, my next toon will be an engi for sure. already in the work.[/quote]
And why not zealot? I suppose, you will make some suggestions about cleanse, or survivability, or dps.

[peterthepan3]

Aggychop have you ever even played a Wrath WP? Do you know how bad it is? How you do equal/less damage to a SNB SM/IB?

Every point that Bretin has made is relevant and pertinent to the dire state of the class. Talking about 'there will be more DPS HEALERS!' is irrelevant, and if you understood the intended playstyle of the WP, i.e. that of a MELEE HEALER - as envisioned by (but not successfully executed) Mythic, and something Aza is trying to push for - you'd be all for these changes.

I get the impression that you have never played live/done much competitive fighting. Giving the WP a 50% heal debuff is a must. It will in no way buff them to a level that you would take one over a Slayer or WH, however. It will just mean that the class can actually OFFER something if some group actually decides they want to bring one, as at the moment there is NOTHING the Wrath WP offers to a group.

And talking about the 'self healing' the Wrath WP can offer? If you're playing Wrath, you're a DPS and the only heal you would ever use is a diminished Rend Soul (this is in the Grace tree)

As much as I disagree with Bretin on certain things, I still respect his experience and input given that his group is the only real challenge on either destro/order for our guild, imo (not to sound like a prick). They all know their classes very well, and any suggestions they make are in the interests of PvP and giving each class a role.

People genuinely think that the DPS WP will become OP make me laugh. If your only quarrel with the buffing of a severely underpowered class, i.e. that of a 2h WP, is 'but there are loads of other classes that need buffs!' then I implore you to make a thread dealing with your respective class and their issues. Renork and I did the same for the Havoc Magus, and they are now performing -somewhat- better thanks to an increased stagger and a 5 sec BoC/Snipe. Though small changes, they are indicative of the developers' genuine desire to balance classes (I can't thank Aza enough, and the other devs, for their relentless commitment in improving the game)

[Atropik]

nope, my next toon will be an engi for sure. already in the work.

And why not zealot? I suppose, you will make some suggestions about cleanse, or survivability, or dps.

[Bozzax]

I suggest to change Absence of Faith, the WPs healdebuff, to a 50% (atm 25%) incoming healdebuff and reduce its cooldown to 10s (atm 20s).

So is a melee WP weaker then a melee DOK in a group environment?

IMO the way an IB oath buff a WP is beyond anything a DOK can dream of and having an afk KOTBS is another 20% free crits. Lets simplify and say that is more damage (and heals) for the WP then a DOK ever can get.

Melee DOKs can bring perma snare while loosing some selfheal and an a great healddebuff. The latter requires a tactic slot which means dropping heals, damage or AOE detaunt.

Melee WPs on the other hand buff party wounds, lacks snare and has a weak heal debuff that don't require a tactic. Lets say the rest is really more or less the same or at least not to unbalanced.

So are melee WPs in this context so weak to warrant a 50% healdebuff on 10s CD?

Personally I’d be inclined to say no without having it tied to a tactic slot for the WP.

Note: One could argue that the Weight of Guilt prerequisite should be dropped though.

[magter3001]

Aggychop have you ever even played a Wrath WP? Do you know how bad it is? How you do equal/less damage to a SNB SM/IB?

Every point that Bretin has made is relevant and pertinent to the dire state of the class. Talking about 'there will be more DPS HEALERS!' is irrelevant, and if you understood the intended playstyle of the WP, i.e. that of a MELEE HEALER - as envisioned by (but not successfully executed) Mythic, and something Aza is trying to push for - you'd be all for these changes.

Except we're talking about wrath spec and not grace... so it's not what Aza is pushing towards nor do I think he's pushing that grace thing anymore last time I heard, based on the feedback that came from it.

I get the impression that you have never played live/done much competitive fighting. Giving the WP a 50% heal debuff is a must. It will in no way buff them to a level that you would take one over a Slayer or WH, however. It will just mean that the class can actually OFFER something if some group actually decides they want to bring one, as at the moment there is NOTHING the Wrath WP offers to a group.
I already mentioned that I did play live, from the very beginning and on a WP of all classes doing premades albeit heal spec (why would I dps on a healer? on 5fps no less?. The class WAS originally suppose to be a melee healer, but never a pure dps class. When Mythic added books with RF (and then nerfed it along with TotD) they changed that.

And talking about the 'self healing' the Wrath WP can offer? If you're playing Wrath, you're a DPS and the only heal you would ever use is a diminished Rend Soul (this is in the Grace tree)

You're still using sigmar's radiance and divine assault though which is from the grace tree, even if you want to dps on a WP using the wrath tree. There is no way you're not using either of those two abilities. I still object to having WPs looked at when there are other classes that are in much dire need for a rework, especially if you're talking about a 6v6, in T3 no less

So much for leaving the thread :/

[peterthepan3]

If you're in Wrath spec, you won't be using that. You will be using bludgeon. That is your filler. I reiterate: have you ever played a Wrath WP? Are you honestly advocating to use abilities that have a much lower dmg value than the designated abilities per Wrath's tree?

You will be using Divine Assault, but to call that a sufficient means of healing/equivalent to 'secondary heals' is silly.

Grace has been looked at, and has been improved somewhat. However the class will still need work done to it should it perform effectively as a melee healer; this is undisputable.

That is why there are different trees: one for healing; one for melee healing; one for DPS. Each should perform effectively.

Saying other classes are in greater need of rework is irrelevant. No one is disputing that other classes are not underpowered, but if you do have issues with certain classes underperforming then perhaps make a thread about it and petition for changes?