Why so tediuos?

[sancra]

See that? My little play on words up there? Anyways.
But that game is 8 years old, so it stands to reason that everyone who played it back then is now 8 years older and probably has a job, children maybe. Responsibilities, is what I'm saying. I maybe get to play 2 or 3 times a week, for a few hours, and I'm willing to believe that I'm not alone with this.

I totally agree.
We should have the choice : fast levelling or not.
I would prefer slow levelling, for skill acquisition and RR equilibrium, but "I have a live", no choice...
And the issue is the same for new comers that wants to play with friend that already own high ranked characters.

So some quests with high payoff may help a lot...

[Scrilian]

No. The original end-set was Warlord. They added sovereign as they rose the cap to RR80. They catered to the grinders (with handing them T4,5 gear) and that was already the foreshadowing of the beginning of the end.

That's just simply wrong. The king loot was Sov and the game released with RR80 cap. It was build for "grinders", not catered to them. Nothing was foreshadowed up until the LotD came

[Razid1987]

The only big difference was Sovereign. And that was the original end-set. It SHOULD be powerful.

No. The original end-set was Warlord. They added sovereign as they rose the cap to RR80. They catered to the grinders (with handing them T4,5 gear) and that was already the foreshadowing of the beginning of the end.

Really? Somehow I don't believe that, lol. Because according to patch 1.0.3, the RR cap was always 80, and there's no mentioning of a RR cap increase prior to this patch.
On top of that, patch 1.0.3 was released about a month after the launch of WAR. Are you saying that they stealth-increased the RR-cap the first month?

Also, there's not a single mentioning of "Sovereign" sets until patch 1.3.6, where said sets got split up. You'd think they would include them in the patch notes, if they introduce them into the game, yeah?

I also don't recall Sovereign not being in the game. Do you have anything to support your claim?

Broader audience = Casuals who want everything served on a silver plate, within 5 mins of logging in? No thanks.

Now that I think about it, RR leachers who got their hands on SOV, too, come to mind. They probably deserved that power too, right?

No, really, to me WAR should be all about; building your own class variation and be good with it. That's it, and it is already all too much for the majority of grinders, who even with RR80 had no idea about what to do when they were in a warband and suddenly had to follow some orders... and we kicked a couple of these types from our guilds in live.

Leeches will always find a way. If anything, you'll make more people leech, by making the game more casual.

Cool, and for me, gear should be important, because it keeps me interested in the game. We can agree to disagree.

[Idrinth]

WoW is obviously focussed on PvP
I do agree with Renown Ranks taking a long time, but I would highly disagree with a huge powergap - so handing out purples easily makes sense to me.
The reason for this is simple: don't drive away new chars and keep fights more interesting. I would propose tiny changes only for each new set of items, so that a theoretical RR100 set would only be a bit more powerful (in terms of stats) than a basic RR30 set - maybe 1% more power per set, making RR100 only ~6% more powerful.
Interesting things would be granted abilities per set, that are mostly equal in power, but different in terms of effect.

So you are basically saying is that dedicated player should get rewarded less in terms of power gap for his/her time and effort just to keep fights "more interesting"?
How it will keep more or less committed players, when they don't see how great and powerful the rewards of sticking to the game are?

Yes, I'm saying, that a dedicated player should gain power, but at a slower rate than on live to make fights less defined by gear and more interesting that way.

The game will hemorrhage all of its hardcore scene in mere months when you start to give away purples for everyone with a press of a LFG button or AFK-ing during the city siege.
I know this is the trigger, but no one will be sticking around for a year for a miserable 6% power gain.
People come to experience the deserved unequality here, to minmax unequal classes, to have a 6v100scrubs and win for the time and effort they put in, with the game gladly providing the opportunity to do so.

6% is from gear, with the given example you'd also have 70 more renown points, that would also give a power increase, a noticeable one. The min-maxing would be even more important due to the lower gap, but otherwise I doubt the groups would suffer from it, they always had their strength in organisation and communication.

Heck, the game should even have you in some cases 3shot casuals if the only counter play is to put as much time in the game as the guy who did it. Shocker, right?

The problem is, that those casuals, that are the ones who mostly provide the content for everyone, will not have fun being one-shot or 3-shot in a 1vs1 situation due to gear differences. Them quitting reduces the avaible content, making the game less fun - you saw that effect on live as well.

I strongly believe that I'm not the only one here who cherishes this approach to the MMOs in general and I whole-heartily agree with Razid post.
Why should it change? If one finds this tedious or unfair - maybe its not the game for them.

I love getting insanly strong in a game not focussed on PvP - if it's PvP, it's actually reducing the fun if the gap is too big. What would make it interesting is more options depending on gear chosen.

Just to throw out some ideas for gear abilites, assume a shared cooldown of 30s, duration of 5 seconds, but no gcd or cost and all of them group-affecting:

Tanks:
40+: Incoming crit-damage -5%
50+: movement +5%
60+: Incoming HoTs +5%
70+: Incoming armor penetration -5%
80+: AP-cost -10%

Healer:
40+: Incoming heal-crit-chance +5%
50+: movement +5%
60+: Incoming crit chance -5%
70+: Incoming disrupt +5%
80+: Morale gain +10%

Ranged DD:
40+: outgoing moral on hit -1
50+: Incoming evade +5%
60+: AP-steal of 1 per hit
70+: +1 morale per hit
80+: incoming debuffs -10%

Melee DD:
40+: AA-speed +5%
50+: lifesteal of 5%
60+: Incoming single target heals +5%
70+: AP-regen +5%
80+: incoming single target heal +10%

[Shibirian]

If you can't commit yourself (...) to make you undefeatable (...)

That says about all, I guess.

Lessening the gear gap just makes commitment null and void, so the casuals can have their assess handed to them less often. Why should it change?

You sound like, it's all about; at one point in the game I am big and fat and grumpy and I can beat up all the other kids at school. No one can defeat me. Sorry, but you are so wrong.

I don't see your point here about the gear, sorry, aside of let the voice and coordination beat everyone.

Oh, that's pretty simple. Didn't I say that? The undefeatable thought they were undefeatable until we came and beat them up. But if you've probably never been a part of that then you wouldn't know.

Really? Somehow I don't believe that, lol. Because according to patch 1.0.3, the RR cap was always 80, and there's no mentioning of a RR cap increase prior to this patch.

Oh, okay? Then I remembered that one wrong.

Also, there's not a single mentioning of "Sovereign" sets until patch 1.3.6, where said sets got split up. You'd think they would include them in the patch notes, if they introduce them into the game, yeah?

I also don't recall Sovereign not being in the game. Do you have anything to support your claim?

First you say: Sovereign wasnt mentioned previous to 1.3.6
Next you say: Sovereign was always in the game.

What, now?

Cool, and for me, gear should be important, because it keeps me interested in the game. We can agree to disagree.

Oh, I agree about that very much, too! We simply disagree about unfair advantage or not.

[Razid1987]

Really? Somehow I don't believe that, lol. Because according to patch 1.0.3, the RR cap was always 80, and there's no mentioning of a RR cap increase prior to this patch.

Oh, okay? Then I remembered that one wrong.

I don't get how you can remember anything like that wrong. Also, it completely nullifies your point that the game somehow changed "when sovereign was introduced".

Also, there's not a single mentioning of "Sovereign" sets until patch 1.3.6, where said sets got split up. You'd think they would include them in the patch notes, if they introduce them into the game, yeah?

I also don't recall Sovereign not being in the game. Do you have anything to support your claim?

First you say: Sovereign wasnt mentioned previous to 1.3.6
Next you say: Sovereign was always in the game.

What, now?

Sovereign WAS always in the game. Go read the patch notes for patch 1.0. Are there mentions of keeps? Bright Wizards? Dungeons? Warlords set? Invader set? Sovereign set? No.

"Well, then it's not in the game!"

Can you see my point? If not, just because it wasn't mentioned in the patch 1.0 notes doesn't mean it wasn't in the game.

Cool, and for me, gear should be important, because it keeps me interested in the game. We can agree to disagree.

Oh, I agree about that very much, too! We simply disagree about infair advantage or not.

I just love your attitude. You want to punish people who commit lots of time to this game. Aka, the backbone of activity, that keeps this server alive. You've already shown that you don't know what you are talking about "Mr. The Original RR-cap wasn't 80". We're done.

[Scrilian]

Yes, I'm saying, that a dedicated player should gain power, but at a slower rate than on live to make fights less defined by gear and more interesting that way.

What is that interesting way to be exact? To me it just sounded like the usual casual-catering bs, about making everyone bland copy of each other +/- 5% stats and nullifying commitment to gear yourself.

6% is from gear, with the given example you'd also have 70 more renown points, that would also give a power increase, a noticeable one. The min-maxing would be even more important due to the lower gap, but otherwise I doubt the groups would suffer from it, they always had their strength in organisation and communication.

A ~year of RR grind for 6% from gear - a noticeable one, really? There is nothing wrong with being powerful.

The problem is, that those casuals, that are the ones who mostly provide the content for everyone, will not have fun being one-shot or 3-shot in a 1vs1 situation due to gear differences. Them quitting reduces the avaible content, making the game less fun - you saw that effect on live as well.

For every 10 casual that leaves 2-3 stay and become hardcore backbone of the game, just so that come and fight that level of power - the actual ones who provide the content by telling what amazing things they've done here and bring their friends here.

I love getting insanly strong in a game not focussed on PvP - if it's PvP, it's actually reducing the fun if the gap is too big. What would make it interesting is more options depending on gear chosen.

IF its too big but more often then not its not the case. (again, I've never played past 80+)

Just to throw out some ideas for gear abilites, assume a shared cooldown of 30s, duration of 5 seconds, but no gcd or cost and all of them group-affecting:

Idk about those, WAR was never cooldown-based so to speak aside from morals. Would much prefer just passive bonuses, but that's just me.

[Shibirian]

I don't get how you can remember anything like that wrong. Also, it completely nullifies your point that the game somehow changed "when sovereign was introduced".

Oh, that's simply because I played the game since 1.2.0 and I only remember Warlord dropping from City Sieges until Sovereign came in. But my memory can betray me, of course.

You want to punish people who commit lots of time to this game.

[Scrilian]

You're, what I would humourously call, a troll. I am big and fat and grumpy and I can beat up all the other kids at school. No one can defeat me. Sorry, but you are so wrong.

You are just scared that some casual is hopping into the game and beats your ass up, because he's simply better than the committed you. That is so silly, I really don't know.

Well, this is ladies and gentlemen, the last bastion of the casuals arguments - the typical ad hominem.

If one can't be bothered to play the RPG with crucial element of gearing himself up and still thinks that should be entitled to be as powerful and as close to the one who committed time and effort to do so just on some imaginary skill alone - I would advise to stay within the bounds of Call of Duty of wherever this bs came from and keep his "humorously calling" to himself

[Shibirian]

For every 10 casual that leaves 2-3 stay and become hardcore backbone of the game, just so that come and fight that level of power - the actual ones who provide the content by telling what amazing things they've done here and bring their friends here.

(Dear Devs, we love you, we really do.)