festering IB's

[bloodi]

I got it don't worry, come back when you have more to contribute.

You are an idiot, your only contribution is being completely unable to read what i wrote and try to interpret it as me wanting to steal killing blows.

If you seriously think i would use Law of gold to steal killing blows you should not even be allowed to post.

How often does their group cleanse remove valuable debuffs? Their ability to cleanse focus targets is similar to sham/am. The tactic is great but its usefulness is greatly exaggerated.
It's useless against IB aoe snares but strong against slayer aoe debuffs.
On the other hand a decent slayer would cover his debuffs and zealots can't help to cleanse it.
Highly situational talk here. :^)
The tactic kicks in, when you don't hit the focus target and they are still able to cleanse without changing their heal focus.

Yeah except everything you said also applies to a single target cleanse, neither of them chooses what debuffs to remove, they just remove the oldest one.

Being able to cleanse your entire group in the time the other healers cleanse one target is broken, thhere is no great exageration here, its just plain idiocy to allow it to be like it is.

[Landaren]

So the better solution would be to let the other healers remove debuffs with a tactic as well?

I don't even know what tactic the other healers would be willing to give up for it, maybe we should just give it to them base line

[Sulorie]

Why not try something smart?

Add 0,5 sec cooldown per successfully cleansed group member, 1 debuff per player. Cleanse the whole group and enjoy a 7,5 sec cooldown. Cleanse one or 2 and not much changes to not punish dok/wp for slotting the tactic in general.
This indirectly buffs classes with aoe dots as those will reduce dok/wp cleanse efficiency.

The technical solution for our dear devs might be tricky though.

[Omegus]

As someone who primarily plays the Zealot I would love it if other healing classes got access to quick cheap spike heals and the ability to cleanse BW effects. No, really /s .

If we're going to play the My Healer Is Worse Than Your Healer game then let's talk about defensive cooldowns.

Why exactly is the RP and Zealot's unique defensive cooldown on a 3 cooldown and is a blessing so can just be severed? Or their self res ability (10m cooldown) also being a blessing so chances are if you would be in a position to use it then it was already removed. The self res isn't an issue yet on RoR as it's a R40 ability but the defensive cooldown is. WP/DoK with their medium armour get an AoE detaunt that's always up, AM get a ST and AoE detaunt that's always up, Shaman get a ST detaunt that's always up along with an AoE detaunt with a 50% uptime and speed/detaunt tactics, while the Zealot and RP get a -50% damage reduction (I realise this is better than an AoE detaunt) that lasts for 10 seconds but has a 3m cooldown (5.5% uptime) and can be severed so the up-time is worse than that.

While we're at it we can also have a conversation about just how bad the Zealot and RP mastery trees are. Grouped by role like most other classes? Nope, they're grouped by Instant Single Target (heals and damage), DoT Single Target (heals and damage) and AoE (heals and damage)... except for the times when they're not (like the DoT Single Target tree having two tactics that trigger from direct effects and the other tactic turns something into an AoE).

Finally, I think we need to talk about all of those DPS Zealots and RPs kiting groups and being nigh-on impossible to catch.

Remember everyone, each side has 3 healing/support classes, not 2 . And before any RPs jump in I'm fully aware you have some right chaff in your mastery trees as well and even less options than the Zealot.

[Nameless]

the fact that you spared 20ish hours gameplay on some class doesnt mean u understand it.

Shamans healwise have nothing that is worth bringing. Hots are not reliable healing, got dispelled, got high value of overhealing and are high ap costing.

All around the boards ppl talk that WAR fighting system is based around brust dmg. Well shamans cant deal good with that.
At the current state of the game to make them better devs should make gork will fix it with higher base value and less AP (same for AM). That heal most of zealots and RP dont even slot on their hotbars while is primary heal for shamans/AMs. Yea that how bad it is...

Since sov gear is delayed undefinitly in time and shamans cant rely on set ap proc it is also very important some hots AP lowering cos the cost is ridicules.

Also shamans are supposed to be pre-active healers relying on hots but at same time almost all procs comes exclusively from direct healing... Make restro burst, pass it on and alike procs availalbe from hots. It is not like hots are so op anyway

i agree and i add

for me at level 32-40 shammy/am should receive point in 2-1 ratio instead 0-1, if their meccnic it's a crap... boost it ! there are 0 reason to avoid that, since a rework is not still possible. The ration 2-1 allow 2 dot and 1 heal with a 4/5 ap reduction and 4/5 cast time reduction make em do with 2 skil what they could achive with a 4 skills.
Also it's k as cleanse work on dok/wp but all othe healers should be able to cleanse all the dots type so that wp/dok can aoe cleanse while other healers are better ST cleanser (or reserve this to am/shammy only).

AM funnel essence should be castable while moving and CD increased, that way am would alredy have something to balance with ork run tactic.

The thing about mechanic is that the class DO NOT have enough ap to debuff and heal \casting dps is out of the picture\. It is simple as that. Put a hot or 2, add steeky and ap debuff, one gork will fixed it and u are litely 0 ap and you done hardly any healing whatsoever.
The mechanic to work somehow better, it should make the buffed spell no ap cost when reach 5 points \although lowering max points to 3 is also preferable\.

FE on move is fix that is quite needed. No need to add bigger cd, 13 sec is enough on skill that every single tank can easielly break. Also it would be good to see wazad behind u equivalent for AM. It will help alot without breaking realms balance (thing that run away mirror could do....)

[Azarael]

The AM/Shaman mechanic needs to compensate for:

- The multiple attribute dependency cancer, yet again
- AP costs
- Opportunity cost of casting a damaging spell in place of a heal

It also needs to take less time to ramp up.

Changing the mechanic to make them more effective at their main role, when they are pigeonholed into one role or the other BECAUSE the mechanic is broken, is wrong, and I agree with all those who blocked that change.

[Nameless]

As someone who primarily plays the Zealot I would love it if other healing classes got access to quick cheap spike heals and the ability to cleanse BW effects. No, really /s .

If we're going to play the My Healer Is Worse Than Your Healer game then let's talk about defensive cooldowns.

Why exactly is the RP and Zealot's unique defensive cooldown on a 3 cooldown and is a blessing so can just be severed? Or their self res ability (10m cooldown) also being a blessing so chances are if you would be in a position to use it then it was already removed. The self res isn't an issue yet on RoR as it's a R40 ability but the defensive cooldown is. WP/DoK with their medium armour get an AoE detaunt that's always up, AM get a ST and AoE detaunt that's always up, Shaman get a ST detaunt that's always up along with an AoE detaunt with a 50% uptime and speed/detaunt tactics, while the Zealot and RP get a -50% damage reduction (I realise this is better than an AoE detaunt) that lasts for 10 seconds but has a 3m cooldown (5.5% uptime) and can be severed so the up-time is worse than that.

While we're at it we can also have a conversation about just how bad the Zealot and RP mastery trees are. Grouped by role like most other classes? Nope, they're grouped by Instant Single Target, DoT Single Target and AoE... except for the times when they're not (like the DoT Single Target tree having two tactics that trigger from direct effects and the other tactic turns something into an AoE).

Finally, I think we need to talk about all of those DPS Zealots and RPs kiting groups and being nigh-on impossible to catch.

Remember everyone, each side has 3 healing/support classes, not 2 . And before any RPs jump in I'm fully aware you have some right chaff in your mastery trees as well and even less options than the Zealot.

valid points but noone mention zealots/rps cos they are closest to the middle ground of power where all healers should be. Although i agree that their dmg reduction buff should be max on 2 min cd and their trees need more supportive skills.
After all zealots/rps are buff oriented healers, shamans/ams are debuff oriented healer, dok/wp are gods know what

[Gobtar]

you would be healing and then fire than instant law of gold, use it for quick fury+searing touch so you could down that guy in the alloted TTK, it wasnt so bad.

Law of Gold is the silence that has the redundancy with SW/BW. Then you are using your channeled ability to assist your team, which means either your team sucks or you are trying to steal DBs, I was giving your team the benefit of the doubt. I will also give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were using ST as a sorc would use HoR (i.e Instacast) Either way this is 3 GCDs you are aren't healing, letting Hots drop off etc.

Needless to say in competetive groupings there is no AM, DPS, healing, hybrid, or bad. No amount of insults or special snowflake, look how 1% I am is going to change this fact, their mechanic is a joke.

The rest of your comments were all over the place so this is the only thing I wished to address, I really think you should stop projecting.

[Gobtar]

The AM/Shaman mechanic needs to compensate for:

- The multiple attribute dependency cancer, yet again
- AP costs
- Opportunity cost of casting a damaging spell in place of a heal

It also needs to take less time to ramp up.

Changing the mechanic to make them more effective at their main role, when they are pigeonholed into one role or the other BECAUSE the mechanic is broken, is wrong, and I agree with all those who blocked that change.

I would like to see the AM/Shaman have a useful mechanic, I really don't care how this is achieved, I was under the impression that the new mechanic was going to make DPS better as well as healing better, and using the hybrid spells would be akin to a finisher.

[Azarael]

The mechanic needs to make hybridizing valuable or it needs to empower the lifetap healing to give an additional dimension.