Rift and Magnet

[peterthepan3]

I never fully understand where all this magus talk comes from, im not sure if any of you have actually played the other specs, but they are in themselves powerful, they do damage if you build the character correctly, they can function well in small group/large group and solo play just fine without rift.

Just seems to me that people are getting to hung up over rift and think that its the only decent thing, when its not, you just need to experiment and work with it, if you change the damage of the magus, it will probably end up being too strong, because then you have higher damage, and the same utility.

Also I see a lot of this 'competitive' talk about warhammer, the game is the furthest thing away from competitive, it was designed around large rvr fights, and the magus fits in well there. stun, aoe damage, dot, single target etc etc.

You're telling me that a Havoc spec magus is powerful when compared against any other DD?

We're not saying that the other specs aren't DECENT; more, the other specs will offer nothing that another DPS could do. ANY decent player can make any class work.

What is this utility that the Magus brings that other classes don't have? A 3 second stagger? A snare that requires you to be in range of WL/WHs?

No offence, but competitive action does/can occur (it most certainly did on live, orz/etc and their regular 6v6 events) in this game. The game wasn't solely catering towards mindless zerg - which is good, because a lot of people don't really find 10000 vs 10000 players enjoyable.
The game catered towards different sorts of PvP, which is what made it stand-out as a PVP MMO: 6v6 scenarios and group play; Mass RvR in keeps and city sieges; solo/duo roaming, etc. Everyone could enjoy the game in some guise. Saying outright that 'the game does not cater towards competitive play' is just indicative of a lack of having experienced the sort, to be frank.

AOE Dots? The dots are laughable at best, and deal no real damage to any decent opposition with 2 WPs cleansing. I implore you to test the potency of glean magic and pandemonium against a group of players who know how to detaunt and cleanse.

This is precisely the sort of feedback that is detrimental to the intended goal of those of us who actually play the Magi, i.e. giving the class a definite role, and in the interim providing some buffs/fixes that will allow us to perform somewhat effectively and not pigeon-hole us into rift. The class - in a competitive environment - does not have nowhere near enough utility or anything to warrant taking it over another DPS, RIFT ASIDE. That's just it. Saying 'but the other specs are good' negates nothing from this: Changing gives you Indigo Fire, and that is about the only good thing you get from it; Havoc gives you a version of doombolt on a high CD, and a disarm (which does deal decent damage, I'll admit). Sure, if you're playing casually you CAN make it work; but if you want to play in a serious group, then there is literally no reason to bring a Magus (rift aside) and if you can persuade me otherwise I'll concede.

the 'l2p' arguments have no place here, and I'm happy to log on my magus and show you that I do know how to play havoc/change. that doesn't mean that the specs don't pale in comparison to other DD, offering nothing that they can't do/excel at considerably.

[Simmox]

Last Nite at Avelorn and Badlands,some Choppa's were continuely pulling us through the doors to the keep,as i lay dead inside i took screen shots of the perps and contacted a GM about what to do about it.
he said i should show them to SigmarPriest.

i wont do so at this stage but may change my mind.

But Guys,really,you gotta police your own faction,you know its exploiting so insist your faction players stop cheating
we police our guys and our own engineers know that its not on.

you are gonna lose players to this and end up with no one wanting to play against you.
smarten your act up and start acting like responsible gamers
we all love this game,so it should be a given that you/we dont want this kind of rubbish going on.

if it continues blatantly i will share the details with the proper people who can do something about said players

[Coryphaus]

While im not condoning those players it is is a byproduct of LoS checks not working, which is why i feel all pull type abilities should be rendred non functional till LoS is implemented.

You can compensate magus players by moving aegis and indigo flames of change down the trees temporarily so that magus players can spec both and be viable, engie's are fine atm and i dont think they would lose much without em (maybe idk i dont play engie) and choppa GTTC is a stupid troll spec and rendering it non functional would make them stop being froobs and spec properly into savage or hitta

[ThePollie]

While im not condoning those players it is is a byproduct of LoS checks not working, which is why i feel all pull type abilities should be rendred non functional till LoS is implemented.

People still knowingly abuse this. They know it's an exploit, they still do it. If this isn't considered an offense worth doing anything about, then I've lost any respect for the administrative staff.

[Coryphaus]

I guess you weren't here in t2 when aoe could go through walls then?

Cause people knew it was a bug and abused it and nothing happened

I realistically don't see people getting banned over this if that's what you expect

I

[talissera]

Spoiler:

I never fully understand where all this magus talk comes from, im not sure if any of you have actually played the other specs, but they are in themselves powerful, they do damage if you build the character correctly, they can function well in small group/large group and solo play just fine without rift.

Just seems to me that people are getting to hung up over rift and think that its the only decent thing, when its not, you just need to experiment and work with it, if you change the damage of the magus, it will probably end up being too strong, because then you have higher damage, and the same utility.

Also I see a lot of this 'competitive' talk about warhammer, the game is the furthest thing away from competitive, it was designed around large rvr fights, and the magus fits in well there. stun, aoe damage, dot, single target etc etc.

You're telling me that a Havoc spec magus is powerful when compared against any other DD?

We're not saying that the other specs aren't DECENT; more, the other specs will offer nothing that another DPS could do. ANY decent player can make any class work.

What is this utility that the Magus brings that other classes don't have? A 3 second stagger? A snare that requires you to be in range of WL/WHs?

No offence, but competitive action does/can occur (it most certainly did on live, orz/etc and their regular 6v6 events) in this game. The game wasn't solely catering towards mindless zerg - which is good, because a lot of people don't really find 10000 vs 10000 players enjoyable.
The game catered towards different sorts of PvP, which is what made it stand-out as a PVP MMO: 6v6 scenarios and group play; Mass RvR in keeps and city sieges; solo/duo roaming, etc. Everyone could enjoy the game in some guise. Saying outright that 'the game does not cater towards competitive play' is just indicative of a lack of having experienced the sort, to be frank.

AOE Dots? The dots are laughable at best, and deal no real damage to any decent opposition with 2 WPs cleansing. I implore you to test the potency of glean magic and pandemonium against a group of players who know how to detaunt and cleanse.

This is precisely the sort of feedback that is detrimental to the intended goal of those of us who actually play the Magi, i.e. giving the class a definite role, and in the interim providing some buffs/fixes that will allow us to perform somewhat effectively and not pigeon-hole us into rift. The class - in a competitive environment - does not have nowhere near enough utility or anything to warrant taking it over another DPS, RIFT ASIDE. That's just it. Saying 'but the other specs are good' negates nothing from this: Changing gives you Indigo Fire, and that is about the only good thing you get from it; Havoc gives you a version of doombolt on a high CD, and a disarm (which does deal decent damage, I'll admit). Sure, if you're playing casually you CAN make it work; but if you want to play in a serious group, then there is literally no reason to bring a Magus (rift aside) and if you can persuade me otherwise I'll concede.

the 'l2p' arguments have no place here, and I'm happy to log on my magus and show you that I do know how to play havoc/change. that doesn't mean that the specs don't pale in comparison to other DD, offering nothing that they can't do/excel at considerably.

+1, nice speech.

[Scottx125]

Honestly I'm not playing all that much because it's become horrifically difficult to get medals, whilst its not my active goal, it is one I would like to achieve before 90 years of age. Last night spent 2 hours in ORVR, 0 medals, played 4 SC's, all of which were horrifically lost (a common case it seems whenever I play, pre-mades just don't make SC's fun for the non-premade team... Of which I can't make because I don't have the time nor the want to make a group, setting up vent ect.) and got only 4 emblems... Considering that you need 490 emblems for top-tier weapon and around 150-200 medals for armour... That is extremely grindy, I could get all my pvp gear in WOW in less time than it would take on ROR to get my T3 gear. Also because I feel that WP which forcus on mele-healing (grace spec) are under-powered, and whilst it would be easier to do what people say and give up and focus on becoming a heal-bot, I will not.

[Ninepaces]

First, why aren't we talking about Engi? Magnet is just as op.

I guess magus suffers from the cc immunity system, or else it would be possible to make some sort of ranged cc support specialist.

Drawing from warhammer fantasy tabletop, magus were competent magic users but nothing exceptional. Actually they were average magic users considered below the classic magic users. Their strength lay in their mobility and tankiness vs ranged attacks. It was common to have for them to charge back lines on their own while most mages spent the game hiding or running from combat. Discs also let magus be 4x faster than a Mage on foot. They had the RoR equivalent of 66% dodge/disrupt (I'm talking about 3+ ward save for you warhammer players). So they were by far the hardest non melee hero to kill.

So what do you guys think of this: let magus ride their disk at mount speed in combat. Or something to allow their disk to give them sort of combat movement speed bonus. Give them a high dodge/disrupt and several close range aoe cc debuff and damage abilities. So their gameplay would be darting in and out of almost melee range applying their close range abilities using their movement speed to escape melees and inherent dodge and disrupt to shrug off ranged damage. Alternatively they could rush back lines and debuff enemy rdps and force peels. Their weakness would be getting caught by melee dps via hard cc like knock down or snares. Can make the core of their aoe abilities 20 feet range so they have 15 feet to work with.


Sample ability:
Range 15 feet aoe around magus
Duration 10sec. 30sec cd
-30% enemy ranged damage from all sources outside bubble area and +30% friendly ranged damage from outside the bubble.

These sorts of close range "swingy" abilities. Enemy damage and heal mitigation and friendly damage and heal magnification. Can throw in some damage abilities too. In warhammer they also had a close range single target nuke that was devastating, but hard to cast and lots of mana.


I don't know to what extent the debs can change and create abilities but I'm just throwing this out there .

[Ninepaces]

The use mount speed in combat can be a toggle ability that drains ap at a slow rate.... I guess unlimited mount speed would be op too.

[Nishka]

First, why aren't we talking about Engi? Magnet is just as op.

I guess magus suffers from the cc immunity system, or else it would be possible to make some sort of ranged cc support specialist.

Drawing from warhammer fantasy tabletop, magus were competent magic users but nothing exceptional. Actually they were average magic users considered below the classic magic users. Their strength lay in their mobility and tankiness vs ranged attacks. It was common to have for them to charge back lines on their own while most mages spent the game hiding or running from combat. Discs also let magus be 4x faster than a Mage on foot. They had the RoR equivalent of 66% dodge/disrupt (I'm talking about 3+ ward save for you warhammer players). So they were by far the hardest non melee hero to kill.

So what do you guys think of this: let magus ride their disk at mount speed in combat. Or something to allow their disk to give them sort of combat movement speed bonus. Give them a high dodge/disrupt and several close range aoe cc debuff and damage abilities. So their gameplay would be darting in and out of almost melee range applying their close range abilities using their movement speed to escape melees and inherent dodge and disrupt to shrug off ranged damage. Alternatively they could rush back lines and debuff enemy rdps and force peels. Their weakness would be getting caught by melee dps via hard cc like knock down or snares. Can make the core of their aoe abilities 20 feet range so they have 15 feet to work with.


Sample ability:
Range 15 feet aoe around magus
Duration 10sec. 30sec cd
-30% enemy ranged damage from all sources outside bubble area and +30% friendly ranged damage from outside the bubble.

These sorts of close range "swingy" abilities. Enemy damage and heal mitigation and friendly damage and heal magnification. Can throw in some damage abilities too. In warhammer they also had a close range single target nuke that was devastating, but hard to cast and lots of mana.


I don't know to what extent the debs can change and create abilities but I'm just throwing this out there .

Very creative idea, but is it possible for devs to make such big changes in a class?