[Split] Marauder discussion

[backrow]

no, I don't main one, the guy who made the valid point does. learn to read, learn to play. so many things to do, so little time.

do you still keyboard turn Euan?

[Euan]

no, I don't main one, the guy who made the valid point does. learn to read, learn to play. so many things to do, so little time.

do you still keyboard turn Euan?

lawl, i misunderstood i admit. his whole post is bull along with yours though. I turn with keyboard and mouse, the reason you may have seen me basically not moving was because of massive lag. you should leave the name of your toons here so I can stomp you on sight, unless you're afraid of someone who turns with keyboard?

[Euan]

Ok let me start with a more srs post since this thread is still about the marauder class discussion but ppl keep complaining about everything but not about the marauder. I'm gonna quote something I’ve posted in the past. Basically it’s a post which sums up the current state of marauder in T4 pretty well and it shows what “fotm order” has to deal with:

If you want to determine the balance of a class, you must consider the following attributes:

- How much offensive potential does the class have
- How much defensive potential does the class have
- In what way does the defense restrict the offensive and vice versa (if you’d have a number line, with the numbers 1-10 on the left and right side, which represent your defense resp. offensive, and in the middle a 0, how would it affect the ratio at one side if you’d manipulate the other side?)

Those are general things you have to define before you strive for further deliberations about the balance.

A few facts referring to the mentioned points above:

1. The Marauder has the highest base-damage-values of all mdps-classes, since he never had a damage mechanic or a crit-dmg tactic in the past (GI was too unreliable to count as such one). That didn’t change after the buffs to GI, so that the Marauder has the same dmg modifiers as WE/WH/WL (with restrictions, since all these classes got tactics which increases their dmg modifier but which can be used only limited i.e. Vindication, Masterful Treachery, Revenge etc.), while he has a higher base-damage on his abilities.

However, the Marauder would be able to keep pace even if you consider the above mentioned tactics, since he got an equally strong ability which works without any restrictions regarding to reliability and tactic-slots (Mutated Aggressor).

2. The Marauder is by far the class which deals, almost independently on your target, the most damage in comparison to his maximum damage potential. That means, while every other mdps class is limited to 20-30% of his max. damage potential against some classes and players, the marauder is able to pull off 50-60% of his max. damage potential against the same target. That’s a result of the immense low mitigation a marauder can reach against his target, thanks to the best armor debuff, a toughness debuff and a tactic which let you ignore 50% of the remaining armor and another skill which does not only profit from the above mentioned penetration-possibilities but also ignores a fixed value of armor by itself.

3. The Marauder is the onliest mdps class which has all debuffs you need to kill a target with guard. Every other dps class relies on a second one because she either lack the heal- or armor debuff. The marauder does not only have both of these abilities, no his versions of those abilities are also the strongest ig (best armor debuff and best healdebuff because it can’t be purged by the wp’s group purge on a 5s CD and 10s duration plus 50% heal leech for the Marauder himself. That heal leech contains literally every healing type, including potions and even more preposterous: OVERHEAL!)

3.1 A snare which can’t be purged. Therefore the best snare of all MDPS-classes and combined with charge and terrible embrace it makes the Marauder the best MDPS-class when it comes to prevent your target from kiting.

Also the Marauder has the best HP-debuff ingame, which is the third best debuff after armor and healdebuff you can have on a target. It shouldn’t surprise anyone if I now tell you that this ability is not only bugged but also the best version of HP-debuff the game offers.

4. The Marauder wears “Medium Armor”. No other MDPS-Class has more armor than the Marauder besides a WL who’s using Baited Trap”. The Marauder has the unique ability to make himself immune against armor penetration, if it’s needed. Thus makes the marauder become the toughest MDPS class ingame with only 1 click.

Let’s summarize why the mrd is “op”:

- More damage potential than any other MDPS-class
- Combines all debuff types and also got the best versions of those
- High combat uptime and the best class to prevent a target from kiting and force them into the assist train
- If needed the toughest MDPS-Class by swapping mutation + the hardest class to kill due to self-heal and heal-leech.

Since you can’t compare the White Lion directly with the Marauder due to the overall realm and meta balance, that’s not a logical starting point to get the right changes going through. If you want to compare classes, you have to compare those which compete with each other i.e. WL and SL or Choppa and Marauder. You have to create a synergy and make them rely on each other without making them useless when alone. But one class should never be able to pressure a full group all alone which a marauder easily can once he has access to HD. No other class is able to do that!

Now you have people like Bludfist, Shlomo, Tesq and all the other pen and paper warriors which are 100% clueless and bad at the game but they tend to act like they would actually know everything about the game and its classes. They keep spamming their stupid “balance suggestions” every time they die in PvP into every thread.

SW balance thread: They will tell you rdps classes are “UP” without any reasonable argument. They die: Fester OP, range KD OP.
WL balance thread: They will tell you WL is “UP” without any reasonable argument. They die: Pounce and Pet OP.
SM balance thread: They will tell you SM is a **** tank without any reasonable argument. They die: Spirit dmg on crit proc OP.

I mean what the ****? Should we really open a thread for everything which is good and makes you die/survive at PvP? Why don’t you complain about chosen’s moral tactic or the fact that order has whether access to a competitive hp debuff or a viable pull. Right, because you will always find unique things on both sides. That’s how a non 1:1 mirror game works. A reason why many of us like Warhammer! Yet there are a lot more important things the devs have to deal with. I guess it’s not only me who’d wish to see you guys stop crying whenever you die in PvP. Try to improve and adapt instead of being a bltch. Once your knowledge is based on something which is not Excel/Word or ingame failures you can try to discuss changes in a serious way again. That’s what I suggest! Balancing is not as easy as you wish and mirroring is not an option if you want WAR to be what it is used to be!

Until then the class balance for pen and paper warriors will stay a l2p issue!

WL and Marauder are very similar so you can compare them, even more so than Marauder and Choppa. Choppa is the one who you would compare with Slayer. Marauder and Choppa synergize really well actually, it is Slayer who outshines everyone which is why you run 2x because you can keep uncleansable Shatter Limbs up at all times, and because their undefendable aoe will be even greater and their single target is just as deadly. Where Marauder debuffs will not stack and he will not deal as great damage as Choppa.

On to Marauder pressuring a whole group? In what world. Marauder has single target debuffs which can be cleansed. Just think about it, they are single target and have a 5 second cooldown at least. He's not ranged either so he has to be within 5ft. They last 5-10 seconds while wounds lasts 20 not to mention you'll be switching stances locking you out of 2 of your debuffs. You really think you can apply pressure to the whole team? That's not even considering taking pressure from their tanks.

I agree with you about the baddies you mentioned

but about this post


" 3. The Marauder is the onliest mdps class which has all debuffs you need to kill a target with guard. Every other dps class relies on a second one because she either lack the heal- or armor debuff. The marauder does not only have both of these abilities, no his versions of those abilities are also the strongest ig (best armor debuff and best healdebuff because it can’t be purged by the wp’s group purge on a 5s CD and 10s duration plus 50% heal leech for the Marauder himself. That heal leech contains literally every healing type, including potions and even more preposterous: OVERHEAL!)"

Realize that marauder isn't going to be killing a target with a guard next to him and being healed unless they are bad players or underleveled. Also realize that its 50% of 50% which is 25%. heal is a heal no matter if it comes from healing potions though marauder should not benefit from overhealing. 5 second snare on melee is crap WL will perma snare you and pounce if you get a little breathing room.

[Bretin]

I agree with you about the baddies you mentioned

actually you are one of them jon snow

[Euan]

I agree with you about the baddies you mentioned

actually you are one of them jon snow

Clever

[Bretin]

WL and Marauder are very similar so you can compare them, even more so than Marauder and Choppa.

No they are not and they don’t compete against each other when it comes to realm balance.

Choppa is the one who you would compare with Slayer.

Again, no!

Marauder and Choppa synergize really well actually.

Yes they do in low tier but once Mrd has access to his full kit there is no need for a choppa anymore. Read my previous post about Mrd again and try to understand it.

it is Slayer who outshines everyone

Slayer < Marauder

which is why you run 2x because

No because there is no alternative such as Mrd who got literally everything and the fact that order has more grp support so it is way safer to pick slayer than choppa.

you can keep uncleansable Shatter Limbs up at all times, and because their undefendable aoe

I lol’d SL is neither undefendable nor uncleansable.

will be even greater and their single target is just as deadly.

Mrd dmg > slayer dmg

Where Marauder debuffs will not stack and he will not deal as great damage as Choppa.

Read my post about mrd again (the dmg part)

On to Marauder pressuring a whole group? In what world. Marauder has single target debuffs which can be cleansed. Just think about it, they are single target and have a 5 second cooldown at least. He's not ranged either so he has to be within 5ft. They last 5-10 seconds while wounds lasts 20 not to mention you'll be switching stances locking you out of 2 of your debuffs. You really think you can apply pressure to the whole team? That's not even considering taking pressure from their tanks.

Are you sure that you’re familiar with the meaning of the word pressure? I highly doubt so.

I agree with you about the baddies you mentioned

See my previous post.

Realize that marauder isn't going to be killing a target with a guard next to him and being healed unless they are bad players or underleveled.

Well since I played Mrd on live I know that he is able to kill a target that has guard on it and is healed. It’s just an l2p issue and I doubt that the groups we fought in 6vs6, open world or sc’s were bad since they tend to crush everyone else. We’re talking about guilds like Sealclubbers, Ehrengrads Nachtwache and a lot others which were well known for a proper gameplay.

Also realize that its 50% of 50% which is 25%.

A+ for your math skills bro.

heal is a heal

U WOT M8?

no matter if it comes from healing potions

So you want healing potions to be affected by heal debuffs? Is it incoming or outgoing heal? Since you cast it, it should be outgoing and not be affected by an incoming heal leech right? W8 what?

though marauder should not benefit from overhealing.

He does Jon Snow.

5 second snare on melee is crap

Yeah insanely crap when it can’t be purged due to his retarded ability type. I totally agree.

WL will perma snare you and pounce if you get a little breathing room.

Cool story bro, nerf pounce.


like this more?

[Landaren]

Keep seeing people ask for pounce on the choppa

Why in gods name would super squishy choppa want to pounce away from his guard? You must be stupid.

Each side has a very good chance of winning if your teamwork is good you have an even higher chance, if your build is correct you raise that chance farther, if you have the best in slot item with the bed with tali and a 60 stat potion it goes even higher

[Coryphaus]

Keep seeing people ask for pounce on the choppa

Why in gods name would super squishy choppa want to pounce away from his guard? You must be stupid.

Because destro does not have acess to an ability as powerful a tool as pounce, furthermore GET TO DA CHOPPA is an absolute garbage ability and making it a pounce mirror while lowering the CD of chop fasta! some would finally make the choppa AoE tree viable

Using pounce on a choppa would be high risk high reward which would be in keeping with the central concept behind the class

[Soulcheg]

Give Choppa Word of Pain also, auras, and healing abilities.

[noisestorm]

If we're already at it. Since shamy got the 40% extra heal tactic from AM mirrored, AM also should get the RUN! tactic, right?