Choppa / Slayer Discussion

[MariborForest]

Slayer: Stack str tactics, get crit buff/self debuff, less health more crit damage boost tactic, then 20 second never missing attacks skill. His role is to get **** in the arse, then he gains a lot of damage and **** everyone.
Choppa: Well, he sniffs dicks. Couple of good abilities (2 heal debuffs and tired already), tactics are choose at random. Everything else is ****. You cant make a choppa "all in" like slayer, he will drop really fast without dealing massive damage.

Wrong wrong wrong and more wrong let me grab the crayons for this one.

Right first of all fierce might its situational at best most you will ever really get out of it is 20-30% any more then that and you should be dropping rage and kitting. Its a bloody dangerous game doing otherwise and a move of pure desperation so many bad things can happen to a slayer that's loosing hp at that rate, such as morale dumps, having your guard cc'ed, over straining your healers and attracting you even more focus. Des already know your squishy no need to advertise it to them as well.

Rampage I keep seeing this from people who don't have a clue about the class and look at it on paper then make broad sweeping assumptions cause it looks good. There is literally no good time to pop this mid fight unless you are disarmed and need to drop rage. Slayer and chopper both rely on running red to kill their damage in the green is intentionally rubbish and you will kill nothing without proper rage control. I see so many slayers just wild swing or no escape for no reason in sc and they kill nothing.

Tactics are not random brute force, don't wanna live forever, flanking and stab you gooder.

As for chopper the middle tree debuffs are a joke they force you into a spec that just doesn't do the job. You want an out going heal debuff? bring a black guard theirs is better and they have lots of other lovely debuffs to!

./end rant

You don't type wrong all the time if you disagree with someone. Childish and foolish. As for the build - it was tested. I was in a guild with these slayers. If you want to play as half arse dummy, no one's holding you.
Face braking Slayers cycle Rampage. Breaking point + Precarious increases a chance to trigger Embrace the pain. There were situations when a slayer couldn't die 'cause he was healed, but health stayed at low amount, imagine his damage with all buffs (and if you don't get it, even casters can parry or dodge your exhaust move, that bites. Without flanking there's no point to hug their back).
'Course you don't need to stay at low health all the time, it just adds "if something". Are you even thinking straight? No need to wait for disarms, Rampage has 10 second window, almost spammable.
You can't snow ball your tactics and abilities like that as choppa.
All of this proves that you are a biased fool, who values only his own faulty opinion. Shove your crayons back in your arse. Cheers!

[Zabudu]

K

All of us are veterans of live no need to try and lecture us on "how to play choppa"

Tell me something why do you really need a second h dbuff that forces you to use 2h, exausts your rage and is an outgoing not In comming hdebuff

When you could just get a Bg who can do all that 10x better with soul killer?


Secondly wot rules is not viable till you get more durable with def sov and it causes you to get absolutely dumpstered by rdps and if you might have noticed a vast majority of Ordo IS rdps here in ror and even then you can still do just fine without wot rules

You know what would really really help choppas grp synergy more? A not trash aoe tree GTDC! Is a weak dmg rng pull and chop fasta has a huge 2 m cd both abilites are bad and as such the tree is compleatly unviable


Slayer is Better than choppa this is a fact, single target, aoe what ever choppa can do slayer does better

Honestly I forgot that we have that ability at all, and not because it forces you to use 2h (I use 2h anyway) but because it's too high and you have to trade it with more usefull abilities.

About BG, well...that's why there are so many classes in this game, to do some things better than you and you just have to give the role of debuffer to someone else.

And Wot rules is usefull ONLY in 1v1 duels, dunno about US servers but on EU we had late night duels, it was something like a tradition.

[Bozzax]

why do you really need a second h dbuff that forces you to use 2h, exausts your rage and is an outgoing not In comming hdebuff

cause you wreck with it in grp play

[Bretin]

your suggestions proofs once more that most ppl don't know anything about balance or balance issues.
first of you can't compare slayer/choppa if you aim for a overall realm balance. choppa is fine as it is, the problem is that he has to compete with the mrd. to fix that issue tainted claw should be deleted from the mrd. no class should have both a debuff for his dmg type and a 50% ic healdebuff since those are the reasons why ppl die through guard. give choppa armor debuff and he is 100% out of control. instead you should make mrd rely on choppa, like it is atm in t2. the reason why slayer is better and a more common pick than choppa is that he has a lot more support on order side and the fact that there is no alternative. destru has the option marauder which has everything. that's the main problem. if you wanna aim for a realm balance between those 4 classes, slightly nerf ID dmg and don't let it proc other procs, make shatter limbs single target and remove tainted claw from the mrd. problem fixed. you won't see double slayer or double mrd groups anymore since they'd both rely on either WL or Choppa in group.

[Bozzax]

Slayers ruled because they did more ST damage then a Choppa in AOE spec over 10s (on live)

[Coryphaus]

You only have to flee when disarmed not that big a penalty as most classes use disarm defensively which probably means your winning and are safe to just wait it out and continue.

If I may point out; I hardly find this to be true

Do WH/WE/mara use their disarm defensively? No rather they use it to leave you defenseless and unable to respond to their attacks

[Toldavf]

Slayer: Stack str tactics, get crit buff/self debuff, less health more crit damage boost tactic, then 20 second never missing attacks skill. His role is to get **** in the arse, then he gains a lot of damage and **** everyone.
Choppa: Well, he sniffs dicks. Couple of good abilities (2 heal debuffs and tired already), tactics are choose at random. Everything else is ****. You cant make a choppa "all in" like slayer, he will drop really fast without dealing massive damage.

Wrong wrong wrong and more wrong let me grab the crayons for this one.

Right first of all fierce might its situational at best most you will ever really get out of it is 20-30% any more then that and you should be dropping rage and kitting. Its a bloody dangerous game doing otherwise and a move of pure desperation so many bad things can happen to a slayer that's loosing hp at that rate, such as morale dumps, having your guard cc'ed, over straining your healers and attracting you even more focus. Des already know your squishy no need to advertise it to them as well.

Rampage I keep seeing this from people who don't have a clue about the class and look at it on paper then make broad sweeping assumptions cause it looks good. There is literally no good time to pop this mid fight unless you are disarmed and need to drop rage. Slayer and chopper both rely on running red to kill their damage in the green is intentionally rubbish and you will kill nothing without proper rage control. I see so many slayers just wild swing or no escape for no reason in sc and they kill nothing.

Tactics are not random brute force, don't wanna live forever, flanking and stab you gooder.

As for chopper the middle tree debuffs are a joke they force you into a spec that just doesn't do the job. You want an out going heal debuff? bring a black guard theirs is better and they have lots of other lovely debuffs to!

./end rant

You don't type wrong all the time if you disagree with someone. Childish and foolish. As for the build - it was tested. I was in a guild with these slayers. If you want to play as half arse dummy, no one's holding you.
Face braking Slayers cycle Rampage. Breaking point + Precarious increases a chance to trigger Embrace the pain. There were situations when a slayer couldn't die 'cause he was healed, but health stayed at low amount, imagine his damage with all buffs (and if you don't get it, even casters can parry or dodge your exhaust move, that bites. Without flanking there's no point to hug their back).
'Course you don't need to stay at low health all the time, it just adds "if something". Are you even thinking straight? No need to wait for disarms, Rampage has 10 second window, almost spammable.
You can't snow ball your tactics and abilities like that as choppa.
All of this proves that you are a biased fool, who values only his own faulty opinion. Shove your crayons back in your arse. Cheers!

Actually I do value allot of peoples opinions on this forum, however your opening comment makes allot of wild claims about things which are second hand experience and which you made no effort to explain at all. I can say by looking at it this spec has glaring issues the dps you gain is allot less then the additional dps you take from handing out a bag of crit to the enemy train. And what's more you have 2 tactics that do nothing if you aren't the focus of attention the dps will be allot less then somebody playing with flanking and positioning correctly.

[Toldavf]

You only have to flee when disarmed not that big a penalty as most classes use disarm defensively which probably means your winning and are safe to just wait it out and continue.

If I may point out; I hardly find this to be true

Do WH/WE/mara use their disarm defensively? No rather they use it to leave you defenseless and unable to respond to their attacks

Its still a group game right? I'm not wasting a gcd on mara on disarm unless its a 1vs1 encounter (the one place I strongly recommend rampage there by preventing disarm) most wh/we will prefer to knock you down rather then disarm you. Disarm and silence are poor cc for a train, knock down is what the melee want it keeps the target still and give you free shots in the back.

If you get disarmed you can always just kite for the duration solo you probably will be immune to disarm for the duration of the fightdue to KD

[Tesq]

Slayer

shatter limbs--> 1 min coldown
rampage--->swap spellbreaker
rampage---> require 2h and from 30 to 50 sec CD (30 effective second cos rampage eff last for when used in berserk 20 sec)


Shatter limbs set with 1min coldown with 10 sec eff match perfectly choppa fasta with 20 sec eff 2 min cd-->ok
swap rampage with spellbreaker will make aoe slayer decide what take between ID and rampage as 1 is dual weild and one will be 2h and also for--> boost reckles gamble / take or not aoe snare/ take or not fierce might--> ok
rampage can ista drop range and if it's berserk last for 20 sec so it need an effective 30 sec cd= 20 sec duration + 30 sec = 50 sec CD-->ok


Choppa

tidy alredy--->swap with can't stop da choppa
Come and git it---> swap with bring da pain
Git it to da choppa ---> need a complete rewamp not possible with swap only---> need to mirror pounce and do something aoe to have something that both mirror wl pounce and slayer ID
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=chp ... 1:;0:0:0:0:

tidy alredy is a good skill but you need it only in ST spec, what does it mean? it can be swap with inc heal debuff with no conseguenge for the st build--->ok
but!! with this changes every choppa can play st and also have access togheter to choppa fasta and also to heal debuff---> very ok
+ have both heal debuff inc + out on the same path is nice---> st effective increased--->ok
the swap between tough and wep skill buf can be temp until git to da coppa is rework so that choppa oe get better contribution from the wep skill being on aoe path rather than on support path.

final consideration
2h build would have choppa with inc heal debuff/tired alredy + out heal debuff and slayer with heal debuff/shatter limbs+ rampage, make actually better the 2h build, also nerf slayer aoe.
-They will have on utility path ap refill/and absorb remove--> ok

Contr :
-i dont know if is possible change rampage to be usable only when 2h (if not well nvm.....sigh)
-git to da choppa need a total rework and this mean problems... (my idea would be something like 30 sec CD target on ground pounce that do soemthing not op but aoe).

[geezereur]

As the OP said I wish Choppas could get Armor Debuff back in Middle Tree instead of the Heal Debuff, If we took it we would not be able to take Furious Choppin I think thats fine for balance.
Slayers already got a fun middle tree spec.