[Split] Marauder discussion

[Penril]

Also, it doesn't matter if half the community can't even remember what classes actually were OP/UP in WAR. What really matters is: do the Devs and Core testers remember?

Because we act unilaterally and without regard to what the community wants? I get your point, that at the end of the day the line in the sand is drawn by the people with fancy-colored names, and maybe that also give our words more weight, but I would like to think that we're aware of our own shortcomings. I played with, IMO, one of the better WLs on Gorfang for years, and so I can say with some confidence that T4 WLs are at best sub-par. But if we were to discuss specific balance changes for the class, I would have to go to him/the community.

You can't balance RoR based on the community because, frankly, most of the community are bad or lack knowledge about more than one class (sometimes they don't even know their own classes). I'm sorry and i don't want to offend anyone, but that's the sad truth.

Just look at my BO/SM poll: Several people posted there saying "BOs are fine, they don't need anything" (even some guys who played rr100 BO's). If you make changes based solely on community feedback, you would be seeing nerfs to Engies (so many people complained about them and their M2!) WL's (dat pounce), BW and Sorc (melee trains destroy them in T4) and so on.

That's why asked if the Devs remember. I do: Slayer/KotBS/Mara/Dok/WP are OP. BO/SM/Eng/Magus/WL/AM/Shaman need some love. WH/WE/BG/IB/SW/SH/Chosen/BW/Sorc/Choppa are fine. It's been like that for almost 5 years and i don't see any reason this won't be the case once T4 arrives in RoR.

[Azarael]

I won't say I remember. But my viewpoint has been colored by speaking to people who not only remember, but are highly opinionated when it comes to the topic of what should be done about the aforementioned class imbalances.

This is why no developer gives the time of day to certain topics about, say, BW/Sorc.

[bloodi]

This game doesn't have enough CC outside of snare to peel melee trains off a target. The only thing that keep them up in guard plus healing.

Guard is a substitute for control to mitigate damage.

Lies, everyone knows that ranged rules this game and thats why order is so overpowered and runs rampart killing even the gods that sometimes bless us playing on their destruction chars.

Give me a 1 minute massive AoE mez and you can take that guard.

I already said this but the most powerful thing by far in daoc is not mezz, is /stick

That's why asked if the Devs remember. I do: Slayer/KotBS/Mara/Dok/WP are OP. BO/SM/Eng/Magus/WL/AM/Shaman need some love. WH/WE/BG/IB/SW/SH/Chosen/BW/Sorc/Choppa are fine. It's been like that for almost 5 years and i don't see any reason this won't be the case once T4 arrives in RoR.

Thats how i remember the game also.

That and me raging at itemization.

[Abolition]

This is why no developer gives the time of day to certain topics about, say, BW/Sorc.

But the BW is so much better than the Sorc!

[Azuzu]

This is why no developer gives the time of day to certain topics about, say, BW/Sorc.

But the BW is so much better than the Sorc!

I was going to comment on this as well, not because I want anything to change, but because I think it illistrates a point about everyones different point of view.

Personally, I think BW has better utility (50% Heal Debuff, Ranged Knockdown, Instant Snare on Channel Ability, 50% slower Build-up debuff, Self Cleanse). Sorc and BW damage is so similar that it doesn't justify the much better utility of BW.

I don't view any of that as a problem that really needs to be balanced. While someone else might look at that as, zomg broken nerf nerf!!

It's hard to balance a game we are all passionate about and have bias over.

Like Azarael clearly favorites Order and constantly slants the game in their favor! (This post may have been one big lead up to that bad joke lol)

[Azarael]

I should clarify: Why no developer gives the time of day to topics regarding BW/Sorc compared to the rest of the classes, not BW vs Sorc.

[Penril]

This is what would happen if RoR is balanced based on community feedback: 40% of the community think BO/SM are fine.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... &start=170

Now if you will excuse me, i will go play my BG.

[Azuzu]

Thiis is what would happen if RoR is balanced based on community feedback: 40% of the community think BO/SM are fine.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... &start=170

Now if you will excuse me, i will go play my BG.

That's because BO/SM are OP!! Nerf!



Joking aside, I think a possibly good way to balance would be balance by commity.

Maybe a handful 30ish players, who have shown of history of not being OVERLY bias (we all have a little bia), manipulative and possessing a good knowledge of the game.

Have those players help with balance and test balance on the test server.

Kind of a system of checks and balances.

[Tesq]

Kind of a system of checks and balances.

cos england monarchy rock!!

[Genisaurus]

Spoiler:

Also, it doesn't matter if half the community can't even remember what classes actually were OP/UP in WAR. What really matters is: do the Devs and Core testers remember?

Because we act unilaterally and without regard to what the community wants? I get your point, that at the end of the day the line in the sand is drawn by the people with fancy-colored names, and maybe that also give our words more weight, but I would like to think that we're aware of our own shortcomings. I played with, IMO, one of the better WLs on Gorfang for years, and so I can say with some confidence that T4 WLs are at best sub-par. But if we were to discuss specific balance changes for the class, I would have to go to him/the community.

You can't balance RoR based on the community because, frankly, most of the community are bad or lack knowledge about more than one class (sometimes they don't even know their own classes). I'm sorry and i don't want to offend anyone, but that's the sad truth.

Just look at my BO/SM poll: Several people posted there saying "BOs are fine, they don't need anything" (even some guys who played rr100 BO's). If you make changes based solely on community feedback, you would be seeing nerfs to Engies (so many people complained about them and their M2!) WL's (dat pounce), BW and Sorc (melee trains destroy them in T4) and so on.

That's why asked if the Devs remember. I do: Slayer/KotBS/Mara/Dok/WP are OP. BO/SM/Eng/Magus/WL/AM/Shaman need some love. WH/WE/BG/IB/SW/SH/Chosen/BW/Sorc/Choppa are fine. It's been like that for almost 5 years and i don't see any reason this won't be the case once T4 arrives in RoR.

I misspoke - I agree with you completely on knowing what classes need attention and which ones don't (and how garby the community is, myself probably included). I know that list, and agree with yours. But in regards to what kind of love each specifically needs, my knowledge is lacking and I would farm out for ideas - just like the SM/BO discussion that led to their knockdowns being shifted in their trees.

Personally, I wouldn't want to see big broad stroke balance changes. I loved what WAR was, I don't want to see the fundamental balance of WAR to be changed.

I think people are asking for specific class changes, because they like the game, they think things are mostly in a good place and they just thing a few tweaks need to be made to a couple classes.

See, I understand that I could be projecting terribly here and therefore wrong, but I disagree. I think that most people love(d) WAR because of what it could be, not what it was. Is there anyone here who played since at least 1.1, and did not unsub/quit at least once before the game closed? Frankly, I would be highly suspect of anyone who claims that they didn't.

Which is not to say that I don't believe you when you say that you love WAR, I trust that you mean what you say. And it's fine if people want to talk about balance solely in terms of tweaking individual classes instead of broad balance changes. I don't actually like broad changes as a general policy myself, I just personally feel that Mythic made so many of these bad, broad-stroke changes that some probably need to be reversed so their desired effects can be implemented in a more fine-tuned manner.