[Split] Marauder discussion

[Ungrin]

How did I insult you? I said nothing about you. All I did initially was quoting you, after you called me stupid. After that all I said was that your argument were stupid. That's me talking about your argument, not you. And again, you actually called me stupid in your first reply to me....

The stupid comment was 100% directed at the utility that the marauder has at it's disposal. It was not directed at you in the slightest. Your comment calling me a "smartass" is what set it all off.

[tomato]

@bloodi

Big scale fights just end up as aoe spam fests.
Of course it would be best to rework every class into an aoe spamming bot.

Because who even wants to think about assisting and applying pressure to specific targets when you could just spam your aoe mindlessly onto everyone. Why make this game even slightly complicated, just give every class the same three skills with other skins, and enjoy the 24vs24 balance.

This is exactly what i was talking about, people who never bother to go in WB will talk about it like its just a aoe spamfest without much thought, some kind of mindless blob that will never be able of rational thought. How the hell do you expect to make the game fun for everyone when you cannot even treat everyone as human beings?

I love to suck my own **** as much as anyone and i had the same beliefs as you when i was younger, **** everyone, lets play top end circlejerk in here but i already saw too many good games being empty because, well, only eletist pricks like me were playing them.

[

Ok, if your precious warband play has so much thought behind it, why can you destroy most warbands with a 6man group?

Those evil elitists, they only want to ruin the game with their knowledge.
Why should people who have a clue about what they're doing decide balance? (pro tip: they should)

It's very important to balance the game at the highest lvl of play, and that is 6vs6, because if you don't you create opporunities for exactly those "elitists" to abuse things balanced around casual play.

Btw, I'm impressed you come with your age and tell us "younger" and "inexperienced"
players how the world truly is.

[dave2278]

How are Choppas compared to Marauders?

[bloodi]

Ok, if your precious warband play has so much thought behind it, why can you destroy most warbands with a 6man group?

Because usually the people on those 6 mans are able to read.

If you could do the same you would read me repeating ad naeeaum that i purely play roam, that is what i like. Just like you could have read that my point is to pay attention to casual level balance as much as top level.

That however doesnt mean i am too obtuse to see what most of the War population is playing.

Hell, i could also jerk myself here to death talking about how great group based play is and how the only available map in t4 should be praag and anyone who is near more than 5 of his realmates should be autokicked from the server and shamed on the forums.

But i truly believe that what this game needs is to make the casual player have much more fun, the places and situations where high level play are already there, casual? not so much.

[Coryphaus]

How are Choppas compared to Marauders?

choppas do more direct pure dps but are squishier and have less utility/debuffs

maras are more survivable but do like 30% less dmg

[Azarael]

The misunderstand me, the dilema with sunwell was not making it too dificult, was making it in the first place.

Is not a case of why are we making this so hard, is why are we making this when most people are not playing it at all.

That is why i mention it, why would you balance the game only around something most of your players dont do?

What would you call balancing for SC play, then?

You assume wrong, that is the problem, people with never blame themselves, you assume people have a critical epiphany when most of them will just ragequit and complain.

If we all played the most perfectly balanced and beatiful games, people would still play Virtua Fighter yet no one does.

https://twitter.com/scrubquotesx This is the kind of people you will get

People who care enough to do that will do that whether or not you balance the game for their level, and either way can be told to L2P, because it's the truth. If you care enough to whine, you care enough to know that you lost because you weren't good enough to play to potential.

I don't expect this game to manifest outrageous PUG imbalances anyway, because a) it's a team game so averaging composition will mask them out and b) there's just not enough potential for them. It's already been pointed out that the skillcap for playing any individual class is low in this game, so how bad can anyone who cares to try really be?

[foof]

My personal opinion (as a longtime Marauder player and advocate, so I may be a bit biased).

I honestly think Marauders are finally just about where they should be. I do not consider them overpowered, pretty much at all. They have the best utility and survivability out of any MDPS class, this is hardly debatable, but also the lowest burst damage, and the only MDPS class that has a restrictive mechanic where you cannot use all your skills at any given time. Now, this may not seem like much but being locked out of being able to aoe, or to burst, or to debuff for 5 seconds can mean a world of difference when every second counts.

If we want to go into a skill analysis or deeper discussion, I'm all ears.

If I would argue anything, it would be that the WL needs some tuning up, (and the Choppa if we want to bring Slayers into the discussion), but then again the Slayer/Mara could take some "slight" nerfs and probably be fine. Heavy nerfs to them would likely be a terrible idea.

[Ungrin]

My personal opinion (as a longtime Marauder player and advocate, so I may be a bit biased).

I honestly think Marauders are finally just about where they should be. I do not consider them overpowered, pretty much at all. They have the best utility and survivability out of any MDPS class, this is hardly debatable, but also the lowest burst damage, and the only MDPS class that has a restrictive mechanic where you cannot use all your skills at any given time. Now, this may not seem like much but being locked out of being able to aoe, or to burst, or to debuff for 5 seconds can mean a world of difference when every second counts.

If we want to go into a skill analysis or deeper discussion, I'm all ears.

If I would argue anything, it would be that the WL needs some tuning up, (and the Choppa if we want to bring Slayers into the discussion), but then again the Slayer/Mara could take some "slight" nerfs and probably be fine. Heavy nerfs to them would likely be a terrible idea.

I'd disagree that Marauders are where they should be. They are leaps and bounds beyond any other mDPS in the game. They are literally nigh-unkillable with a good support system around them. At least the slayer has a rage mechanic behind them where if they were to get out of gaurd range for a few seconds they can be killed, the marauder can just stance dance into monstro and /dance at the opposing team.

The marauder also has huge burst, considering that guillotine is a guaranteed crit when it goes off. If you put two marauders in a group together they will destroy everything in front of them. I've seen it. I've done it. I honestly think anyone debating otherwise are trying to manipulate the game for their own purposes, albeit maybe not consciously.

[Ungrin]

so how bad can anyone who cares to try really be?

You would be surprised.

I've seen a 3v3 where a fully geared RR100 WP dies to a marauder with only 3 tactics in and a SnB fully defensive Chosen. You seriously underestimate how bad people can be at video games.

[foof]

My personal opinion (as a longtime Marauder player and advocate, so I may be a bit biased).

I honestly think Marauders are finally just about where they should be. I do not consider them overpowered, pretty much at all. They have the best utility and survivability out of any MDPS class, this is hardly debatable, but also the lowest burst damage, and the only MDPS class that has a restrictive mechanic where you cannot use all your skills at any given time. Now, this may not seem like much but being locked out of being able to aoe, or to burst, or to debuff for 5 seconds can mean a world of difference when every second counts.

If we want to go into a skill analysis or deeper discussion, I'm all ears.

If I would argue anything, it would be that the WL needs some tuning up, (and the Choppa if we want to bring Slayers into the discussion), but then again the Slayer/Mara could take some "slight" nerfs and probably be fine. Heavy nerfs to them would likely be a terrible idea.

I'd disagree that Marauders are where they should be. They are leaps and bounds beyond any other mDPS in the game. They are literally nigh-unkillable with a good support system around them. At least the slayer has a rage mechanic behind them where if they were to get out of gaurd range for a few seconds they can be killed, the marauder can just stance dance into monstro and /dance at the opposing team.

The marauder also has huge burst, considering that guillotine is a guaranteed crit when it goes off. If you put two marauders in a group together they will destroy everything in front of them. I've seen it. I've done it. I honestly think anyone debating otherwise are trying to manipulate the game for their own purposes, albeit maybe not consciously.

I thoroughly disagree. The slayer of course, does have a rage mechanic. However, you act as though a slayer can't dump his rage, which he can, easily, when he needs to. It isn't like he suffers all negatives from the mechanic with no drawback. Furthermore, a Slayer at max rage puts out much more damage than a Marauder can ever dream of, even if said Marauder cripples his survivability doing so.

The Marauder does not have huge burst if directly compared to other MDPS classes. They have the worst burst out of any MDPS class in the game. If you want to go into a point by point detail on this comparing every MDPS class, I'd be more than happy to. Cull the weak also is a guaranteed crit when it goes off, and WL's have had higher burst than Marauders since day 1 and it's never changed. But you don't even mention that, yet you try to argue that anyone who disagrees agrees with you is manipulative...

I honestly think blanket statements like "anyone who disagrees with me is trying to manipulate the game", are laughable at best. These are considered typical ad hominem logical fallacies meant to discredit an argument without debating any points.