improving the general RvR-system - not just my two cents

[Thorgrumm]

This is along the lines of my ramblings here http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 1&start=30 so its nice to see that others have the same thoughts about how to break up the masses and spread out the fight:

BO's arent 'taken' they need to be 'held' in order for it to be classed as captured. If there are no players standing at the BO it is neutral. If one side kills everyone holding the BO it immediately flips to being owned by the victors as they now have players holding it. If the attackers then move from it, it turns neutral until someone else turns up. There is no renown tick from BO's. The map just shows who currently owns a BO, it does not indicate that it is under attack, the players need to broadcast this in region.

Keep doors can only be attacked (take damage) if all BO's are held by a faction. This makes it easier for the underdog to halt a keep attack by taking and holding a BO, or just skipping from one to the other, turning them neutral. The 'zerging' side would need to split between holding BO's and attacking the keep. This might then scatter the fight all over a zone which should make premades happier (I've never been in one so guessing here) and give pugs a reasonable tactical game and requirement.

The larger fight would be at the keep, with smaller fights trying to hold the BO's. Sometimes the larger blob attacking the keep would need to stop and help retake BO's with some of them then staying to hold them. Once the keep door goes down, BO's stick to being owned by the winning side but are now irrelevant and dont need holding, and everyone can converge on the keep if they want to, but dont actually need to for getting rewards (see below).

Increase the renown gained from player kills, add in AAO, remove the tick from a keep capture, change it to a zone tick only once the keep is captured so that it doesnt matter where you are in the zone you still get a juicy tick for capturing the zone. I hate the idea of people running from a perfectly good fight just because they need to get to the keep. The losing side gets a smaller failed zone defense tick.

Loot roll is zone wide for the winning side, again removing the need to be in the right place at the right time just for a larger tick and chance of loot. Loot is then mailed to people.

[mithilius]

As someone who very much enjoys large-scale battles I am very much against the idea of forcing people to split into small cells for basically everything.

Increasing rewards for player-kills and decreasing BO rewards might help in having players actually do something instead of afk-ing around until the fight is taken to the keeps though.

I often find myself worried about the BO ticks because acquiring influence is such a bitch. The way it is at the moment it is very likely you won't need the influence rewards when you can actually afford them.

[Sulorie]

this wont fix the same and always present problem, total side zerg :/

if the zerg is total side other relam cannot do nothing.

i'm pretty sure i never saw a system better suited against uneven odds, so if you have a better idea on how to solve that problem PLEASE tell us

Something like this http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 521#p72251.
Yeah I know, I am a littlebit biased towards my own ideas but I seriously haven't seen anything yet, which convinced me more.

[Tiggo]

i like the idea with the bos.

What i would ad is a time limit to actually take the keep after the door is opened (i think there is one already but it isnt shown anywhere) and the time should be shown to both sides.

you could also ad: if other side takes ALL bos back, the keepdoor gets closed within 1 or 2 minutes (and enemy keep attackable of course)?

could make some nice races then and increas tension etc.

global defense (e.g. when attacked keep gets its door closed) tick should go to any player on the realm who took part in any rvr activity within that lock period imho.

and i still would like a global bonus when zone locks (or defense tick) for kills made during the zone lock to all players who took part in any rvr activity.

[satori]

This is along the lines of my ramblings here http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 1&start=30 so its nice to see that others have the same thoughts about how to break up the masses and spread out the fight

that was actually one of the posts that inspired me, i put it in the spoiler with "quotes" in my first post in this thread when starting it

As someone who very much enjoys large-scale battles I am very much against the idea of forcing people to split into small cells for basically everything.

well i guess there will still be a very big fight at the keeps, i just like the idea of giving smaller groups something useful to do at the same time (BOs, cut off supply lines)

Increasing rewards for player-kills and decreasing BO rewards might help in having players actually do something instead of afk-ing around until the fight is taken to the keeps though.

well if the fight gets to the keep you can simply return it to the BOs by taking them in my system cause the enemy cannot attack the keep if you hold them

I often find myself worried about the BO ticks because acquiring influence is such a bitch. The way it is at the moment it is very likely you won't need the influence rewards when you can actually afford them.

true, especially if you also play SC, you simply outlevel the influence rewards and the even green gear gets better

but with AAO you also get more influence for kills

[satori]

i like the idea with the bos.

What i would ad is a time limit to actually take the keep after the door is opened (i think there is one already but it isnt shown anywhere) and the time should be shown to both sides.

you could also ad: if other side takes ALL bos back, the keepdoor gets closed within 1 or 2 minutes (and enemy keep attackable of course)?

could make some nice races then and increas tension etc.

global defense (e.g. when attacked keep gets its door closed) tick should go to any player on the realm who took part in any rvr activity within that lock period imho.

and i still would like a global bonus when zone locks (or defense tick) for kills made during the zone lock to all players who took part in any rvr activity.

there are all great ideas!!! i like it added that to the starting post!

[satori]

this wont fix the same and always present problem, total side zerg :/

if the zerg is total side other relam cannot do nothing.

i'm pretty sure i never saw a system better suited against uneven odds, so if you have a better idea on how to solve that problem PLEASE tell us

Something like this http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 521#p72251.
Yeah I know, I am a littlebit biased towards my own ideas but I seriously haven't seen anything yet, which convinced me more.

well that is an interesting read, looks like you focus pretty much everything (even the siege) around AAO
maybe there is a way to merge some of our ideas?

[satori]

on removing the guards: yes you are right, it does set the minimum requirements to take a BO (and reduces the time to do so) and that is exactly what i wanted it to do
this way even a single player - no matter what class or how he is specced - can take a BO that is not defended by enemy players, i am pretty sure this will lead to actual PvP

What I am getting at is that the minimum requirement of only 1 person to cap a flag is not a good design because it is on the opposite spectrum of the zerg. No happy medium. One person is too little and it encourages solo and small group play but not the warband sized gameplay, which is what this game is all about.

It's not that I don't want solo players doing anything, because I do, but I don't want solo players going to cap BO's by themselves. This game is not all about skirmishing and it is not all about ganking, only partly about those. The rest of this games primary action should be group vs group.

i really think having one player by himself be able to take an undefended BO will lead into that pretty much never happening because the other side is well aware of the fact that this would stop their whole siege so they are going to guard the BOs and this leads to small-scale PvP while the big fights happen at the keeps - so you got group vs group at BOs and WB vs WB at keeps (unless ofc one WB really wants to overrun a BO... but my propsed system does not encourage a clumped up zerg)

So, I proposed by BO 2.0 suggestions here and this attempts to improve BO to be less 'cap-and-run' and more of something that increases fortification as you hold it, gives benefit to underdog, etc. http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... =15&t=6694

i really like your BO-system (and would love it in our current RvR-system right now on the server) but don't you think being able to damage the keep door is reward enough for holding the BOs? also i want as few as possible reward-ticks from BOs/keeps and such and pretty much all rewards besides the final lock come from player kills to really encourage PvP

[mirrorblade]

Before merge some ideas pls read other rvr system topics, 4 or 5 rvr topics
We need a complex system (as vp system)

Zerg was bigger problem then afk w8 free ticks. We have zerg because ppl want free rr for all characters (include x realmers)

Need guards, and npcs at keeps and bos, if we have attackers, we will have defenders.Need to slow attackers, but dont stop and we didnt like the w8hammer.
Die for honor and glory!

X realmers the problem, Both of side boring if havent big fights (defender little groups slaugthered, attacker take free keeps,zones is boring after a half hour)

Keep trading was better, 1 open zone and zerg win is worst!

[FETT]

Sorry, what is AAO?