Another Balance Topic

[Azarael]

Balance is a case of "when", not "if". Yes, it is not an easy task, but equally it is not as impossible as you believe.

Nor is it wise to compare the community of RoR unfavourably with Mythic. You assume that Mythic had an influential group of people who existed to ensure that the game was balanced - that balance was somehow a priority for them. I do not believe that this was the case.

I think it's well documented that I oppose the full-conservative outlook and that I have an interest in seeing tweaks made for the sake of balance. If this means that RoR runs multiple servers in the future, to deal with this split, that would be something that I would encourage. People should be free to play what they want, when the time comes.

[Azuzu]

Balance is a case of "when", not "if". Yes, it is not an easy task, but equally it is not as impossible as you believe.

Nor is it wise to compare the community of RoR unfavourably with Mythic. You assume that Mythic had an influential group of people who existed to ensure that the game was balanced - that balance was somehow a priority for them. I do not believe that this was the case.

I think it's well documented that I oppose the full-conservative outlook and that I have an interest in seeing tweaks made for the sake of balance. If this means that RoR runs multiple servers in the future, to deal with this split, that would be something that I would encourage. People should be free to play what they want, when the time comes.

Split servers is a brilliant idea, a "Classic" server and a "Improved" server. I would hope the when balance happens would be after 40 is released. So you don't have to deal with the issues of buffed lvl 26 or 30s scaling too well.

I do look at Mythic very favorably because they created DAoC, in my opinion the best pvp MMO of all times. On the other hand, I think EA is the devil. lol So I like to blame all of WAR's shortcomings on them.

I think any company, that had the history of MMO success that Mythic had with DAoC would have a team dedicated to attempting to balance. If that was successful or not is another question.

The recent MMOs I've played have all suffered from imbalanced, much worse then WAR did. So I look back on WAR in a good light.

[Coryphaus]

I understand you think you have good opinions on how to "fix" warhammer. The problem is your only human and I'm sure like the rest of us suffer from bias. Who gets to decide on how things are balanced, whos good ideas get implemented? Do you get to say how the game is balanced, do I? Is balance done by community and vote? If enough people bitch about it, does it get nerfed or buffed?

As far as Mythic being a skeleton crew, it wasn't in the beginning and early WAR suffered from out of wack class balance too.....because no one was lvl 40 yet. Magus and Engis were kings with their rift groups. Solo DPS DoKs could 1 v 4

Balance is very delicate and isn't worth the risk, in my opinion.

I do remember rr100s and the power imbalance it caused, I was one of those rr100s. That isn't an issue we will face here for ALONG time I'd imagine. Rather then worrying about LoTD, RR100s, ect, it's more important to focus on getting T3 out, T4 out, ect.

The community and the devs build a dialog on what they feel needs to be changed and then make suggestions which then is discussed by the community

This was what was done during the sm/bo talk thread in which some great suggestions were made that would have made them viable, competitive options

To say that we don’t need to worry about how broken t4 was b/c of “how long away it is from now”, because that’s not true, a vast majority of the abilities/tactics are all working the devs could push the cap pretty close to 40 if they wanted.
And once again

When the problems with the class are already known to the extent that we see "LF KOTBS/IB for premade" in chat, I see no reason to wait until we have everything in the game, which could be years.

When we hit level 40, it'll be "but rr skills"
When we have RR skills, it'll be "but sov!"
When we have Sov, it'll be years after this point.

Why wait to fix problems with class balance when we already know what the real issues are

furthermore dont be biased to mythics WAR because of DAoC, either becasue of them or ea, it dosnt matter, they dropped the ball

[Sardaukar]

Ye-ah.
WAR was not balanced terrifically well. At launch or after.

Anyone remember Mythic telling us "Wait, just wait, we're working hard on balance" after release? Took them..three months (?) to get the first major balance patch out. Aaaand it sucked hard. Felt very WoW, actually. We were hoping for a major fix and got a very mixed bag. Lot of faith lost that day.

Balanced doesn't mean perfectly balanced, it means, in this context, "reasonably balanced." Sure, some classes might have a slight advantage in one area and a weakness in other areas, compared to their mirrors or the setting.

The idea is to remove as many of the glaring imbalances until your mirror is really a flavour choice - and your role reflects class intent. A relatively even distribution of classes played will reflect the success of this.

[Genisaurus]

Also, no offense to the dev team, but Mythic couldn't get balance right with the most expensive budget ever for an MMO (at the time), a studio filled with employees many of whom had years of MMO dev experience and massive resources compared to this project.

It's silly to think that a handful of people, working hard on this project (to whom I'm eternally grateful) are going to be able to balance classes.

I'm sure you've got a reasonable point, and I'mma let you finish, but let's not give Mythic any undue credit. Which is to say, any credit at all. Between the incompetence of Mythic's staff to the mismanagement of EA, WAR was grossly mishandled from the day it launched to the day it died.

The only good thing that can be said of them is that they made a game with the shadow of promise behind it, which we all saw. That's why we're here today. But I guarantee you, there is not a single person here reading this post that did not unsub at least once out of frustration for the gap between what WAR could easily have been, and what it was.

Whatever we do here, in balancing classes or anything else, let us never hold Mythic up in comparison unless it is to say, "At least we're not that bad."

[lilsabin]

this 100%


Make this as close to the original as you can!


Most of us are here because we played and loved the original Warhammer. I believe, the focus should be to make this server as close to the original as possible.

There are much more important things, t3, t4, RAs, all the RvR gear, ect. Balance shouldn't even be on the minds of the devs or community.


Also, no offense to the dev team, but Mythic couldn't get balance right with the most expensive budget ever for an MMO (at the time), a studio filled with employees many of whom had years of MMO dev experience and massive resources compared to this project.

It's silly to think that a handful of people, working hard on this project are going to be able to balance classes. In my opinion, balancing an MMO takes an extremely complex approach that really has never been perfected.

It's best to give us the WAR we remember and love, that's why we are here.

lol ok first off did you remeber t4? do you remember how game breaking that p2w rr100 "expansion" was? how much power creep and stupid **** like pocket items that lotd brought? warhammer was an utter mess

i remeber you saying this stuff in /ad today as well

many of here know that war was flawed and i beleive that many here have good suggestions on how to fix this game, and furthermore mythic was a skeleton crew of only, the fired employs and cut the budget when the realized that WAR wont be the "wow killer" and then mythic took that money making wrath of heros to try and cash in on the moba popularity

I understand you think you have good opinions on how to "fix" warhammer. The problem is your only human and I'm sure like the rest of us suffer from bias. Who gets to decide on how things are balanced, whos good ideas get implemented? Do you get to say how the game is balanced, do I? Is balance done by community and vote? If enough people bitch about it, does it get nerfed or buffed?

As far as Mythic being a skeleton crew, it wasn't in the beginning and early WAR suffered from out of wack class balance too.....because no one was lvl 40 yet. Magus and Engis were kings with their rift groups. Solo DPS DoKs could 1 v 4

Balance is very delicate and isn't worth the risk, in my opinion.

I do remember rr100s and the power imbalance it caused, I was one of those rr100s. That isn't an issue we will face here for ALONG time I'd imagine. Rather then worrying about LoTD, RR100s, ect, it's more important to focus on getting T3 out, T4 out, ect.

lets ask blizzard