White Lions pouncing up into keeps

[Bozzax]

Had a WL jump out of M1 Champ Challenge yesterday

(I'll put it on bugtracker)

[bandshark]

Pounce should not work from Champ challenge, nor any roots for that matter. SH should not be able to get out of M1 with the drop back skill either.

We should remove range pets until they stop shooting through los/walls while we are at it.

... see where this could go?



Pounce is to mitigate sticky feet + run away, no other order melee class can counter it.

In fact Pounce is less functional for catching someone in ROR than it was in live.



If we begin the cycle of changing skills as they were for the entirety of live War, where do we draw the line, or what's next?

Do we decide Rp and Zealots should have a CD on Grungni's Gift/Flash of Chaos etc... because a certain class has a hard time countering a running healer, who flees + ap pots then continues? This would actually make more since with the melee hit box and lag issues.



This is why the mirror system is a nightmare to balance and has always been balanced per a realm vs realm , not individual classes/mirrors perspective.

All things considered, Mythic did a good job balancing a mirror system, and pounce is one of those balances.

If we want true balance and dramatically start changing the game, lets ditch the mirror system and have all classes on both realms.

[Xaun]

Pounce is to mitigate shaman runaway. If pounce gets a cd, then run away should also be nerfed to match. Currently pounce is not as good as it was in live. In live a Wl could control the direction while pouncing and land a snare.

Run Away - defensive effect, works vs every class

If Pounce worked only on Goblins, that would be one thing, but it can be spammed defensively and offensively irrespective of whether a Shaman/SH is present

Since Order feel put out here, I suggest we mirror Run Away and Pounce - that should negate your woes.

[Luth]

Yes, pounce can be used defensively, but it is no where mentioned that it shouldn't be possible. Indeed the WL is played best as a hit&run class.
Despite his burst damage, high mobility and an armordebuff, he doesn't bring something special to any group.
Due to the lack of an incoming armor debuff you actually gimp your group setup by taking a WL and it makes any double WL setup impossible vs serious enemies.

[Aceboltz]

All things considered, Mythic did a good job balancing a mirror system

No, deforming mirror was a bad idea balance-wise, and no, they did not a good job. Players cried for balance on forums from the start to the early end of the live servers, blogs were made, pts testing was done yet the unbalance remained and the game died.

Back on topic
It looks pounce shines because there is no bypass defense in the game. All melees are supposed to be able to enter enemy keeps. In that situation, wls are only slightly better, it's not like they can jump into a keep and spam flurry or aoe bump/stun. Imo it's too early to touch the white lion and not a good way to improve the game.
The only change I would made is to try and fix the bug that allows to jump out of a root because it's stupid to be able to ignore a tank job or a ranged class defensive move.

[kintari]

I don't think there is a "keep wall flag", so the server can decide if the target stands on a keep wall or a hill.

There isn't right now AFAIK, but the upcoming LOS system will know the difference between keep walls and hills (in fact, it will most likely initially release with only structural occlusion and not terrain occlusion while we evaluate its impact on the server).

It might make sense to put an LOS restriction on pounce i.e. you would have to have LOS to the ground target position for pounce. This way, it would still be possible to pounce into keeps, but it would require the keep defender to stand in just the right (wrong?) spot.

I think mid air pouncing can and should be fixed though, so people can punt the WL down again.

Agree completely.

[Landaren]

I never felt that the imbalances were so large that one side could dominate the other.
A lot of it was gear and coordination of the classes

You guys that think bws running in spamming their annilate skill is killing warbands is ignorant

[Penril]

Pounce is to mitigate shaman runaway. If pounce gets a cd, then run away should also be nerfed to match. Currently pounce is not as good as it was in live. In live a Wl could control the direction while pouncing and land a snare.

And Eye shot.
And Stop, drop and roll.
And Destroy Confidence.

Man, those gobbos are incredibly OP. Are you sure people left WAR during its first year because of BWs? IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE SHAMANS

edit: Just making fun of the fact that order always defend those skills with "but Shamans have RUN AWAY"

[dkabib]

It isn't suppose to do it. But I do think it is nice... =)
Just KB them out

[Morf]

Even tho i dont play a wl and im not a fan of pounce, i think its better to give them a reliable pounce even if that means pouncing on keep walls then the unreliable and sometimes useless pounce wl's had on live.