New RvR system vs Old RvR system Poll

[Tiggo]

actually it doesnt. (until door is down, after that new systems needs some ideas i agree).

[Azarael]

There's no point complaining that a system doesn't allow you to do anything when you're outnumbered because that's a greater game design issue. You'll find that very few game systems designed to reward strategy and effort work very well if one side is allowed to become imbalanced in power. This is why FPS games have team balancers.

Any solution you can propose to "solve" this problem creates the opposite problem; tedious exercises in trading or locking empty objectives and keeps because you're avoiding fighting the enemy - as if you do decide to fight against a faction that's numerically greater than you are, you're probably going to lose.

If you can't figure out a way to preserve the realm balance in these engagements, which is the REAL problem, nothing you can come up with justifies my continued effort to change the RvR system.

Sadly, the deck is heavily stacked against us because we have such limited control over the account system and can't stop crossrealming.

[Tiggo]

There's no point complaining that a system doesn't allow you to do anything when you're outnumbered because that's a greater game design issue. You'll find that very few game systems designed to reward strategy and effort work very well if one side is allowed to become imbalanced in power. This is why FPS games have team balancers.

Any solution you can propose to "solve" this problem creates the opposite problem; tedious exercises in trading or locking empty objectives and keeps because you're avoiding fighting the enemy - as if you do decide to fight against a faction that's numerically greater than you are, you're probably going to lose.

If you can't figure out a way to preserve the realm balance in these engagements, which is the REAL problem, nothing you can come up with justifies my continued effort to change the RvR system.

Sadly, the deck is heavily stacked against us because we have such limited control over the account system and can't stop crossrealming.

well there is ONE solution that can change things: THE PLAYERS

and thats at the same time the mother problem.

what i dont understand: if looking at the server stat on front page, destro/order is most times quite even. are those figures not accurate?

[Azarael]

The issue here is that we're playing an MMO.

In a game where you play for the challenge and gameplay alone, an unbalanced game is the bane of ALL players, because it's no fun for anyone. However, when the dominating side actually profits from the imbalance in some way, the incentive to maintain the imbalance is created.

Normally, realm locking and AAO would be present to help with this, but there's absolutely nothing on RoR stopping players from switching to the winning side in order to benefit from the rewards.

[Razid1987]

There's no point complaining that a system doesn't allow you to do anything when you're outnumbered because that's a greater game design issue. You'll find that very few game systems designed to reward strategy and effort work very well if one side is allowed to become imbalanced in power.

I disagree. My guild on retail would always, if outnumbered massively, seek other zones and try to make some thing happen. Would it be take BOs, Keeps or whatever. Then when the enemy master zerg would zone in, we would change zone again. I'd just say it strategy. There's little to no strategy in following a zerg, sadly.

I'm not saying I don't like the new system. I'm just saying it doesn't allow for this kind of strategy.

Sadly, the deck is heavily stacked against us because we have such limited control over the account system and can't stop crossrealming.

You can't? How about only allowing accounts character of one faction?

[Azarael]

I won't disagree that that is strategy. However, it's exactly the strategy we wanted to avoid in the first place - zone hopping to avoid the fight.

You can't? How about only allowing accounts character of one faction?

Then you just use two accounts.

[Razid1987]

I won't disagree that that is strategy. However, it's exactly the strategy we wanted to avoid in the first place - zone hopping to avoid the fight.

40v20 is not a fight. It's a slaughter.

[Razid1987]

I won't disagree that that is strategy. However, it's exactly the strategy we wanted to avoid in the first place - zone hopping to avoid the fight.

You can't? How about only allowing accounts character of one faction?

Then you just use two accounts.

Only allow one account per IP? Damn... Yeah that doesn't work.... :/

[Azarael]

Sure, and as I've said, I agree. But the solution to that cannot be "let's go somewhere else and take empty objectives".

This is why I said I didn't want to be responsible for the RvR system. Either you defeat the purpose (combat) in favor of free rewards, be that via RoR's old system or zone hopping, or you force combat and are at the mercy of imbalanced numbers.

[Razid1987]

Sure, and as I've said, I agree. But the solution to that cannot be "let's go somewhere else and take empty objectives".

This is why I said I didn't want to be responsible for the RvR system. Either you defeat the purpose (combat) in favor of free rewards, be that via RoR's old system or zone hopping, or you force combat and are at the mercy of imbalanced numbers.

Yeah, I can see the dialemma. I personally like the zone hopping more though. At least then, both factions can have some what a fun time.

Just dying over and over again.... It's just gonna make people log off, and then both factions are losers in the end. The victors will run out of people to kill and objectives to take, and the defeated will just stand afk in wc or simply log completely off.