Keep Claiming - Clarity and Limits

[Delerium69]

Some questions about keep claiming.

I never understood why keep claim and release were removed from state of realm but I just got on with it. It is what it is.

The issue that I am seeing in the lakes today is that single guilds seem to regularly claim everything, every night leaving no other guilds the opportunity to claim themselves. I was under the impression that something was put in that ensured that there was enough players from that guild actually in that zone to maintain the keep claim but not im not sure as we never seemed to get any clarity in patch notes on this (unless im blind... which is possible).

My feedback though is:

1) Cap the number of keeps that can be claimed by a single guild to 1 at a time allowing other guilds to participate in oRvR keep claims.
2) Enforce at least X players (recommend 24) of that guild to be present in the zone for the keep claim to kept - this has both a penalty and benefit side. The penalty is that guilds need to really be in the zone to protect that keep to maintain it but also the benefit is that if the guild finishes and logs off, the keep will auto release the claim after X minutes of the minimum players to maintain claim expires.

Del

[Tyrodan]

Is this really an issue? Most RvR guilds I've been in made it a habit not to claim keeps for too long, given how draining it was for their gold reserves. Many times keeps were just claimed for the duration of the siege and maybe a possible countersiege in case of a successful defense.

My gut feeling is also that many organized guilds would be happy to rotate keep-claimings to put less stress on their guild bank - I've simply never seen a guild / warband leader who was adamant that the keep needed to be claimed by him, as long as someone organized and reliable took it to gain oil control and not have some useless solo dwarf engineer ruin the siege for the defenders to boost his killboard stats.

Have you tried reaching out to the guild in question and simply offered to take control of the keep next time? They might simply not be aware that there is someone out there who wants to help out.

Aside from that: enforcing 24 players to be able to claim a keep is nuts. There are very few (if any) guilds left who can run a full guild-only warband.

[kpihuss]

Hi!

Well, at LOS AUTÓNOMOS, we make it a habit to claim key areas whenever we set up for WB.

We don't just install flight upgrades; we usually activate other upgrades that benefit the entire Order, which comes at a significant weekly gold cost.

Even though we are a casual guild, there have been times—like last night on Reikland—when our presence at a besieged keep, combined with our upgrades, proved decisive in defending the zone. (Of course, this can't be happened with the work of every order player on keep)

We also tend to claim keeps when we have at least 12 players online (though we usually have around 16–20, making us one of the most populous guilds during our late-night playtime on the order side). Setting a minimum requirement of 24 players would make it impossible for any guild to claim castles—perhaps only TGWU could manage it during prime time.

That said, there is currently a "points" system in place that guilds must meet to avoid losing their castle claims: viewtopic.php?p=573646

Keep in mind that some upgrades, such as oil control, already require six guild members to be alive and present at the keep for them to function.

[wonshot]

The whole keep claiming system, is very very strong indeed. Both the bonuses, but especially the control you can have over the sieges defences. by flying in members, controling oil and preventing randoms wasting it on bait pushes etc.

I think this mostly boils down to how powerful of a tool oil is. If oil is as strong as it is, then having 100 players in a siege and 99 of them plays the oil correctly, but one random guy doesnt then he can put the whole siege at risk. This is what makes keep claiming so powerful imo. Soon others on the server will likely catch up, i think guilds like Jempire and Reikwatch were ahead on this approach. But that does highlight how problematic and strong oil really is and the synergy between 3 min oil respawn timer, and the time it takes for a push/fake push to get ressed up and rebuild morales without pumps also being 3mins. So well timed perfect oils kinda should stop most sieges, only reason we dont see that yet is because of the random-person-wasting oil happends too often still.

As for claiming and its advantages, i like the system. But the ingame window does a pretty bad job explaining the upgrades, the requirements for them to work and not be overruled (need 5 guildies alive and in the keep according to the point system kpi linked)

For example, apparently buying max rank of claimed oil allowes alliance members to also deploy oil but if you are like in my case an unallianced 6-9man guild this upgrade can bug out and let randoms pour oil despite we have the max rank purchased. This is not explained ingame. Which is poor.
As for claiming and holding, that should be expensive and a good gold sink. And romantic part of me want this to be solved by players chatting and coordinating ingame, if they need to takeover a claim when previous owners log out, or if they need help flying in to bolster the dences.

[Delerium69]

Hi!

Well, at LOS AUTÓNOMOS, we make it a habit to claim key areas whenever we set up for WB.

We don't just install flight upgrades; we usually activate other upgrades that benefit the entire Order, which comes at a significant weekly gold cost.

Even though we are a casual guild, there have been times—like last night on Reikland—when our presence at a besieged keep, combined with our upgrades, proved decisive in defending the zone. (Of course, this can't be happened with the work of every order player on keep)

We also tend to claim keeps when we have at least 12 players online (though we usually have around 16–20, making us one of the most populous guilds during our late-night playtime on the order side). Setting a minimum requirement of 24 players would make it impossible for any guild to claim castles—perhaps only TGWU could manage it during prime time.

That said, there is currently a "points" system in place that guilds must meet to avoid losing their castle claims: viewtopic.php?p=573646

Keep in mind that some upgrades, such as oil control, already require six guild members to be alive and present at the keep for them to function.

Thanks for the responses guys and I didnt want to name Kpi but yeah its your guild as you've already said. On reflection though, I am in agreement that it shouldnt be 24 in zone but I do think the number of keeps claimed per guild should be capped at 1... no guild is big enough to fight in two zones at the same time and as Bombling has stated, if used correctly, keep upgrades are incredibly strong.

You could argue the 5 people online in guild/alliance limit is too low too but this is a private server and the population is lower so completely understand that.

Del

[kpihuss]

Don't worry, talking things over isn't a problem, and nobody took offense.

The reason for claiming more than one keep—specifically in zones where there’s no active combat and the Destro side has two stars—is so we can fly in and establish a holding force on the walls. We need enough staying power there to hold the line and help the Order get inside the keep.

It wouldn't be the first time we’ve flown into a keep only to find over a dozen Choppas, Witches, or Marauders on the walls; we have to drive them off so we can hold the wall and start rezing Order soldiers who are dying outside the keep with 2-3 destros WBs outside of the keep.

I’d also like to point out that, as you rightly said, no guild is big enough to fight in two zones at once. But the thing is, you’ll rarely see two (or three) simultaneous sieges these days. In fact, the only time I can remember a double siege happening, holding both keeps actually allowed us to move from Keep A to Keep B, smash the ram at B (destro 6 man), and get back to A before the Destro forces could reach the inner keep. Then again, if memory serves, that’s only happened once in the year since I joined LOS AUTÓNOMOS (the Guild Master insists the name be written in all caps... xD).

Getting back to the point: a while ago, I actually reported a discrepancy where the Wiki stated guilds could only claim a single keep, yet the game allowed claiming all available ones; the team confirmed that the rule had changed and the Wiki was outdated.