Followup to the roadmap

[Rubius]

Honestly, with how RvR hasnt gotten ANY meaningful attention or delivered any improved RvR patches the past 5 or so years maybe this is for the best.

While I'm a big supporter of new and exciting things for RvR, I do just want to note that making very generalized statements like this tends to both overdramatize and often downplay the work that has gone in over the last years. I'd argue that there have been some moderate to very impactful changes for RvR, especially focused on Pug/new players, just in the last couple of years alone.

To name some changes off the top of my head:

- Warband Leader Rewards were built to support both Pug and Org leaders (though primarily Pug) and give them bonuses for stepping up. An entire system was built to tally these points each week, new items / titles were added in, and in the last patch, some beautiful new Cosmetic Capes were added to round out the offerings. I remember this system getting almost universal praise from our RvR groups and from players in the patch notes thread when it released.

- Warband Leader Crowns were launched to help Pug players find the action more easily, and likewise to allow Organized groups a way to coordinate forces on the battlefield. I know some players will say they feel this results in forces sticking together more (and that may be true), but I think overall it's much better for new players to both find and follow the action in RvR.

- Objectives and Keeps were better balanced for both factions, like Order's Troll Country BO moving further from their warcamp, and Destruction's Postern door right next to their KV warcamp also getting blockaded. There were a handful more changes beyond these, but all these little things are good for overall balance.

- Keep Claiming and Keep Upgrades were restored, added, and improved. Mythic's original concept of guilds claiming keeps was brought back, then further adjusted to be both more expensive but also more useful with recent additions like Oil Control. Both realms can now use these upgrades to great effect to ensure the best possible attempt at holding while outnumbered.

- Battlefield Objectives got new buffs and got re-worked to grant a War Crest every 3 minutes for a cap, and a stacking 30% Renown bonus per BO for 15 minutes. This was the first test to encourage players to move around the map and pick up the buffs, instead of just sticking to one spot. (I can't say if it's had a huge impact on all players, but I've definitely taken warbands around to pick up these buffs if they were near.)

- A number of common stuck spots have been fixed. This one is easy to forget because when they're fixed, you never know they were there! We spent a couple weeks just fixing up a bunch of locations shared with us by players in the last year, and if players aren't complaining as much about getting stuck near those spots, I consider it a good win. Getting stuck mid-fight may sound like a small thing, but when it's mid-siege or fight, it's an awful feeling, so I'm really glad we were able to fix up a good handful.

There were lots of other changes not listed above, but this is what I mean when I say statements like: "RvR has not gotten any meaningful attention in 5 years" come across a bit more overdramatic than maybe intended when you look at the list and realize it's nowhere near the truth. One could argue that they feel none of the above changes are important, good, or meaningful, but then it's very much a matter of opinion, and I will be the first to say I think a lot of the changes above are both good and meaningful!

Would I like to see even more? Absolutely. But I hope the above helps paint a more accurate picture of what's been added, even just in the last couple of years alone.

[leftside]

The team is not interested in any meaningful discussion, so yeah it's hard to have one like that. If they were, we would have a lot more official news and PUBLIC polls regarding what the players actually want. There's been almost zero steps made to improve communication in recent years, it only got worse, and LUCKILY people are getting fed up with it, so they leave.

It's also funny that you would accuse the playerbase of having an echo chamber, when probably the biggest echo chamber is the development team itself regarding their stance at how the server is handled. Refusing to listen to the same feedback for over 6 years, dismissing data and just blindly following the same failed road.

We can also see friends of friends and Devs getting into the the Dev Team to enforce this echo chamber even more, so the chances of anything changing positively is pretty slim.

There's a lot more to be said, but it's upsetting to see you try to shift the responsibility AGAIN towards the playerbase and sugarcoat just how bad management is, and that goes all the way to the very top. It's a very small community, so when people get kicked out of focus groups or are invited and experience the reality of RoR Development, yeah those news spread pretty fast. Not to mention the Dev Team also talks privately fortunately, so you can't keep up this charade.

Hard to give respect when this PR non-sense is the response to players valid concerns.

( Also in before this message will get deleted again by Rydiak because the Team can't handle criticism. Yikes )

Almost feels like Secrets is back again.

[wonshot]

Hey Ruby, thanks for taking the time. Honestly.
I genuinly DO want to meet you in the middle, but that list screams "needs followup" almost all the way through.
You and I, have had our DMs back and forth. And I think I reported 5 stuck-rvr-locations that to my knowledge didnt get followed up and fixed. I could be wrong, I'll happily admit.

Same for the BO-stacking buff on captureing an objective, that was the single line of text that brought me back a year ago after having needed an RoR break. This change showed me will and motivation and more importantly understanding of the playerbehavior, and trying to address it directly head on. Trying to give more playerkill progression by doing your homework and eating your veggies and captureing some BOs. Brilliant attempt, I do it myself go around and refresh the buffs for myself and my guys. But the overall community havnt embraced it, countless warbands i join the leader moves with theres 7 seconds left of the buff (shoutout to merci lol)

Warbandleader crows were a good idea to give the pugs an idea about where to go for the action, and giving the losing team a chance to stack if they cant win on their own. it solves one side of an issue, but leans into the other side of blobing and stacking. With rvr not offering a de-escalation system to deblob stacked warbands again for the remains of a zone timespan. As BOs fall unimportant during a keepsiege and all players stay stuck untill a lord is dead and theres a brief action-top in the zone timespan where players actually fully play the map and each BO have equal value.

And that is my general take on RoR's rvr, you might have made it easier to get more action, and get more players involved but the action is arguebly not better. We see more NA twitch streamers comming in, and leaving faster in recent year. We see waves of closed WoW privatservers coming in, and not staying. The main replay loop is not fun and good enough to stand on its own, when the smell of new car fades. When progression on demand in terms of exp for Career leveling stops and you need to fight for progression forward, or run out of progression and quit/reroll.

The main attraction needs to be fun and engaging, we voted on that, I have been saying that, you have been saying that.
But we are still stuck with not having found the solution. Myself and others have made wall up and wall down suggestions, we have had a focus group, but noone seem to have gotten close to a system that can replicate why LOTD somewhat spreads players out and have a de-escalation deblobbing mechanic that works a little bit, and why post-keep-lord BO zonelock mechanic works.

Moving the Ostland BO flag, blocking a postern. Yes it helps, for those specific moments of RvR. But Im calling for more focused attention to the general rvr systems, the ones that make the WoW refugees stay longer on RoR. The systems that make the NA streamers stay on RoR, the system that makes LMN feel like its worth managing a guild and fighting in RvR! Else the server will remain stuck in this loop of waves uppon wave of youtube newcomers who dont stick around, and veterans just farming the Cross guild wave "because they gave us aao".

My question geuininly is, how can we help. Seemingly the old RvR dev and/or focusgroup couldnt crack this nutt, neither of the suggestions on the forum have been perfect. So how can we help, if we can at all. And if we cant, can we please see an other "all hands on deck" like it was done for the Roleplay cities. Because RvR needs this level of attention. No matter how many layers of perfume(pve updates) that is added to a turd(server fun), its not going to help.

But this is kinda the same situation we were in when i did the warbandleaders feedback years ago, and we are still not closer to improving rvr. Because players not getting stuck in elven stairs, or itemization are not rvr content guys.. come on now with the weak overly defensive attempts.

Status atm: No assigned RvR dev. RvR Focusgroup was not even informed. Main issues of RvR hasnt been solved, and seem like its not getting prioritized at all.

[JohnnyWayne]

With rvr not offering a de-escalation system to deblob stacked warbands again for the remains of a zone timespan. As BOs fall unimportant during a keepsiege and all players stay stuck untill a lord is dead and theres a brief action-top in the zone timespan where players actually fully play the map and each BO have equal value.

I have a solution for this. And it is already in the game. The bloodrage form BS. Basically, create an event in case of large blobs with the new event system, that applies that effect to the blob(s).

In the last 2-3 years, the undertaking of reworking the skill system // classes was completed. The SC match maker was improved greatly. Sets are currently being reworked. From my point of view and with the limited set of resources available, I'd expect a RvR rework and campaign changes up next. That or city, but I'd clearly advice to take care of general RvR first, as it is available 24/7 and generally played by more players for longer hours. The effects of improvements would be considerably more present in players every day playing.

[Nameless]

My question is what happens with players champions event. It sound solid and something extra to do when aao shift heavily but didnt got properly introduced.
This, sadly show they way orvr is handled. You got decent idea, tried to implement it, something went wrong and got discarded.
Ok there is no clear vision and idea what to do with orvr but at least implement already approved ideas and polish what he have live

[nocturnalguest]

If only time to write cry/excuse/making conspiracy teories/ spagetti posts would be exchange for learning coding, proper and full rvr system analisis (from code to evaluation to end product) and delivering complex solution not that shalow proposition hidden behind community support that are worth nothing.

Neeeeiiiiii

[Le ma O]

this, /thread

Tons of text walls, issues not pinned down, what to do nobody knows

However, there is a solution. RoR team has one thing that is done super wrong for ages, thats actually "develop, like you would develop in alpha phase". When you dont know what to do, cant model out consequences and how people will like it or not then just go blind. Implement some change, let it stay for 30 days and then revert for another 30 days. After 60 days of testing decide if it stays or not.

Just ensure you can reroll changes easily and do them already. Rest will be figured on a move. Also keep in mind you cant do worse then it already is, 6 years of same sh**, at this point even bad change equals a breath of fresh air lol

[Culexus]

All of these threads assume that changes to the campaign will change player behaviour and therefore create a "better" RvR experience.

What evidence is there that RvR mechanic changes will change player behaviour this way?

If you take the current campaign mechanics as they're intended, the current system fulfils all the desires you have for the campaign.

Let's pretend I'm a dev posting the new RvR BO system for the first time:

Battlefield Objective Overhaul

The new BO mechanic:

Each BO spawns supplies that have to be taken to the war camp or a keep, and each supply handed in adds to the keep's supply total. Each time a certain threshold of supplies is reached, your keep gains a rank. If supplies are handed in for a certain period of time, any supplies building to the next keep rank will be lost.

These supply boxes will spawn faster the more BOs that are held, and the higher the rank of your keep, the more BOs that must be held for any supplies to spawn.

When handed in, supplies give renown and a good chunk of weekly campaign contribution and zone contribution.

The supplies have a large visual indicator as to who is carrying them, so the enemy can easily spot supply runners. They are on a 6minute timer, so players can't hoard supplies and have to keep moving

The results of the mechanic overhaul:

BOs will become the main focus of each zone and will spread players throughout the map as they battle to secure BOs for themselves and deprive the enemy of them. As keeps gain ranks, holding BOs will become even more important to both take and hold, as it will become harder for supplies to spawn and to prevent the enemy from obtaining their next keep rank.

Not only will BOs now become the new focus of the RvR, but due to supplies having to be physically run to WC/Keeps by players, both realms will set up roaming ambushes to attack (or protect) supply runners. The visual supply indicator and supply timer will make running supplies risky and require it to be done quickly. Dynamic movement will be critical for securing supplies.

This new supply line BO system will inevitably increase organisation, communication, and spread players across the map into roaming warbands. As a blob can only secure a single BO at a time, it would also discourage blob play. This new emphasis on organisation and roaming warbands would create a more guild-focused community, while also giving smaller groups a chance to contribute to the campaign through supply running and backline capture of BOs.

Sounds amazing right? No doubt many would be frothing at the mouth for such changes finally being implemented and excited for this new BO-based RvR system and all the awesome new gameplay it will bring.

Now let's see what happens when the new system goes live and the theory meets reality:

No one cares and everyone pug-blobs in the middle of the map between both warcamps to farm kills.

Now that’s just BOs. Think about how the same thing has happened with all the other changes that have been made to RvR, such as ram icons (seen any intercepts lately?), keep ranks and upgrades, AAO, x‑realming, leader icons, etc. All of them have had the best intentions and are amazing in theory, but then they meet the reality of how players actually interact with the game, and they all fail.

Maybe it’s not that the devs don’t care about RvR or don't have any ideas for it; it’s just that they have the experience to know that whatever they do, the players will not interact with it as intended, as was alluded to in Yaliskah's post. Would you want to put your free time and effort into that?

Same for the BO-stacking buff on captureing an objective, that was the single line of text that brought me back a year ago after having needed an RoR break. This change showed me will and motivation and more importantly understanding of the playerbehavior, and trying to address it directly head on. Trying to give more playerkill progression by doing your homework and eating your veggies and captureing some BOs. Brilliant attempt, I do it myself go around and refresh the buffs for myself and my guys. But the overall community havnt embraced it, countless warbands i join the leader moves with theres 7 seconds left of the buff (shoutout to merci lol)

That should give you a bit of a clue that the changes you believe will save RvR may not result in the outcome you envision. It hasn’t for any of the changes the devs have ever made for RvR, so why would the changes this nebulous “community” wants be any different? Let’s not forget it was the “community” that campaigned for timed cities. How has that change worked out?

We all get caught up in believing our thoughts are true, and that if only the world followed the vision we have in our heads, then everything would work out exactly as we imagine it. We can see the results so clearly in our own minds; it becomes inconceivable that they’re not the solution, especially when we convince other people we’re right and they agree with us. Hell, basically all of politics runs on this mode of thinking.

It’s important to take a step back and realise that our thoughts are just thoughts, and that the vision we have in our heads — no matter how real and true it may feel — may not match reality if it were ever implemented. If we don’t do this, we can end up torturing ourselves with our own thoughts and making ourselves frustrated, angry, and miserable, as we believe the solution is so obvious — if only someone would listen to us

[Lescargo]

All of these threads assume that changes to the campaign will change player behaviour and therefore create a "better" RvR experience.

What evidence is there that RvR mechanic changes will change player behaviour this way?

If you take the current campaign mechanics as they're intended, the current system fulfils all the desires you have for the campaign.

Let's pretend I'm a dev posting the new RvR BO system for the first time:

Battlefield Objective Overhaul

The new BO mechanic:

Each BO spawns supplies that have to be taken to the war camp or a keep, and each supply handed in adds to the keep's supply total. Each time a certain threshold of supplies is reached, your keep gains a rank. If supplies are handed in for a certain period of time, any supplies building to the next keep rank will be lost.

These supply boxes will spawn faster the more BOs that are held, and the higher the rank of your keep, the more BOs that must be held for any supplies to spawn.

When handed in, supplies give renown and a good chunk of weekly campaign contribution and zone contribution.

The supplies have a large visual indicator as to who is carrying them, so the enemy can easily spot supply runners. They are on a 6minute timer, so players can't hoard supplies and have to keep moving

The results of the mechanic overhaul:

BOs will become the main focus of each zone and will spread players throughout the map as they battle to secure BOs for themselves and deprive the enemy of them. As keeps gain ranks, holding BOs will become even more important to both take and hold, as it will become harder for supplies to spawn and to prevent the enemy from obtaining their next keep rank.

Not only will BOs now become the new focus of the RvR, but due to supplies having to be physically run to WC/Keeps by players, both realms will set up roaming ambushes to attack (or protect) supply runners. The visual supply indicator and supply timer will make running supplies risky and require it to be done quickly. Dynamic movement will be critical for securing supplies.

This new supply line BO system will inevitably increase organisation, communication, and spread players across the map into roaming warbands. As a blob can only secure a single BO at a time, it would also discourage blob play. This new emphasis on organisation and roaming warbands would create a more guild-focused community, while also giving smaller groups a chance to contribute to the campaign through supply running and backline capture of BOs.

Sounds amazing right? No doubt many would be frothing at the mouth for such changes finally being implemented and excited for this new BO-based RvR system and all the awesome new gameplay it will bring.

Now let's see what happens when the new system goes live and the theory meets reality:

No one cares and everyone pug-blobs in the middle of the map between both warcamps to farm kills.

Now that’s just BOs. Think about how the same thing has happened with all the other changes that have been made to RvR, such as ram icons (seen any intercepts lately?), keep ranks and upgrades, AAO, x‑realming, leader icons, etc. All of them have had the best intentions and are amazing in theory, but then they meet the reality of how players actually interact with the game, and they all fail.

Maybe it’s not that the devs don’t care about RvR or don't have any ideas for it; it’s just that they have the experience to know that whatever they do, the players will not interact with it as intended, as was alluded to in Yaliskah's post. Would you want to put your free time and effort into that?

Same for the BO-stacking buff on captureing an objective, that was the single line of text that brought me back a year ago after having needed an RoR break. This change showed me will and motivation and more importantly understanding of the playerbehavior, and trying to address it directly head on. Trying to give more playerkill progression by doing your homework and eating your veggies and captureing some BOs. Brilliant attempt, I do it myself go around and refresh the buffs for myself and my guys. But the overall community havnt embraced it, countless warbands i join the leader moves with theres 7 seconds left of the buff (shoutout to merci lol)

That should give you a bit of a clue that the changes you believe will save RvR may not result in the outcome you envision. It hasn’t for any of the changes the devs have ever made for RvR, so why would the changes this nebulous “community” wants be any different? Let’s not forget it was the “community” that campaigned for timed cities. How has that change worked out?

We all get caught up in believing our thoughts are true, and that if only the world followed the vision we have in our heads, then everything would work out exactly as we imagine it. We can see the results so clearly in our own minds; it becomes inconceivable that they’re not the solution, especially when we convince other people we’re right and they agree with us. Hell, basically all of politics runs on this mode of thinking.

It’s important to take a step back and realise that our thoughts are just thoughts, and that the vision we have in our heads — no matter how real and true it may feel — may not match reality if it were ever implemented. If we don’t do this, we can end up torturing ourselves with our own thoughts and making ourselves frustrated, angry, and miserable, as we believe the solution is so obvious — if only someone would listen to us

this, this, and this again.

[ShadowWar]

You need to be on a senior dev level to produce proper code with those.

Going to reiterate this. AI tools have been proven very poor for actually learning. Think of the typical models as incredibly fast and powerful idiots who have to be hand-held the entire way.

There are cross-domain skills you can bring if you know other languages, or foundational engineering skills. However, even then it will take someone a LOT longer to do the same thing in a foreign language. As an example: I've never touched lua or game development, but I was able to update an addon someone else created to a point I was at least content with it. Nothing crazy, and it took me a long weekend of work and then a month of tweaking. I've got 15 years in enterprise development at a fortune 350. There's a reason why everyone believes the bubble is about burst

[kpihuss]

All of these threads assume that changes to the campaign will change player behaviour and therefore create a "better" RvR experience.

What evidence is there that RvR mechanic changes will change player behaviour this way?

If you take the current campaign mechanics as they're intended, the current system fulfils all the desires you have for the campaign.

Let's pretend I'm a dev posting the new RvR BO system for the first time:

Battlefield Objective Overhaul

The new BO mechanic:

Each BO spawns supplies that have to be taken to the war camp or a keep, and each supply handed in adds to the keep's supply total. Each time a certain threshold of supplies is reached, your keep gains a rank. If supplies are handed in for a certain period of time, any supplies building to the next keep rank will be lost.

These supply boxes will spawn faster the more BOs that are held, and the higher the rank of your keep, the more BOs that must be held for any supplies to spawn.

When handed in, supplies give renown and a good chunk of weekly campaign contribution and zone contribution.

The supplies have a large visual indicator as to who is carrying them, so the enemy can easily spot supply runners. They are on a 6minute timer, so players can't hoard supplies and have to keep moving

The results of the mechanic overhaul:

BOs will become the main focus of each zone and will spread players throughout the map as they battle to secure BOs for themselves and deprive the enemy of them. As keeps gain ranks, holding BOs will become even more important to both take and hold, as it will become harder for supplies to spawn and to prevent the enemy from obtaining their next keep rank.

Not only will BOs now become the new focus of the RvR, but due to supplies having to be physically run to WC/Keeps by players, both realms will set up roaming ambushes to attack (or protect) supply runners. The visual supply indicator and supply timer will make running supplies risky and require it to be done quickly. Dynamic movement will be critical for securing supplies.

This new supply line BO system will inevitably increase organisation, communication, and spread players across the map into roaming warbands. As a blob can only secure a single BO at a time, it would also discourage blob play. This new emphasis on organisation and roaming warbands would create a more guild-focused community, while also giving smaller groups a chance to contribute to the campaign through supply running and backline capture of BOs.

Sounds amazing right? No doubt many would be frothing at the mouth for such changes finally being implemented and excited for this new BO-based RvR system and all the awesome new gameplay it will bring.

Now let's see what happens when the new system goes live and the theory meets reality:

No one cares and everyone pug-blobs in the middle of the map between both warcamps to farm kills.

Now that’s just BOs. Think about how the same thing has happened with all the other changes that have been made to RvR, such as ram icons (seen any intercepts lately?), keep ranks and upgrades, AAO, x‑realming, leader icons, etc. All of them have had the best intentions and are amazing in theory, but then they meet the reality of how players actually interact with the game, and they all fail.

Maybe it’s not that the devs don’t care about RvR or don't have any ideas for it; it’s just that they have the experience to know that whatever they do, the players will not interact with it as intended, as was alluded to in Yaliskah's post. Would you want to put your free time and effort into that?

Same for the BO-stacking buff on captureing an objective, that was the single line of text that brought me back a year ago after having needed an RoR break. This change showed me will and motivation and more importantly understanding of the playerbehavior, and trying to address it directly head on. Trying to give more playerkill progression by doing your homework and eating your veggies and captureing some BOs. Brilliant attempt, I do it myself go around and refresh the buffs for myself and my guys. But the overall community havnt embraced it, countless warbands i join the leader moves with theres 7 seconds left of the buff (shoutout to merci lol)

That should give you a bit of a clue that the changes you believe will save RvR may not result in the outcome you envision. It hasn’t for any of the changes the devs have ever made for RvR, so why would the changes this nebulous “community” wants be any different? Let’s not forget it was the “community” that campaigned for timed cities. How has that change worked out?

We all get caught up in believing our thoughts are true, and that if only the world followed the vision we have in our heads, then everything would work out exactly as we imagine it. We can see the results so clearly in our own minds; it becomes inconceivable that they’re not the solution, especially when we convince other people we’re right and they agree with us. Hell, basically all of politics runs on this mode of thinking.

It’s important to take a step back and realise that our thoughts are just thoughts, and that the vision we have in our heads — no matter how real and true it may feel — may not match reality if it were ever implemented. If we don’t do this, we can end up torturing ourselves with our own thoughts and making ourselves frustrated, angry, and miserable, as we believe the solution is so obvious — if only someone would listen to us

The problem with the campaign is, quite simply, that there is no carrot.

And I think I've been saying this for years now.

In my opinion, the currency unification was what ultimately killed the campaign. Before that, capturing keeps led to cities, and BiS gear was obtained specifically by taking part in and winning those sieges. That was the real engine behind the campaign: you wanted to progress and get the best gear, so you had an actual reason to push zones, take keeps, and eventually reach the enemy city.

Since War Crests were introduced, everything has basically been simplified into killing, killing, and more killing.

A few of us still want to play the campaign as an actual campaign: move the frontline, siege, defend, capture keeps, and win zones. But we are a minority.

And you can see this perfectly when a zone has, for example, +40% AAO and yet the side with a clear numerical advantage still doesn't even bother pulling out a ram.

Sorry, Destro, but I'm mostly talking about you here. During my usual playtime, it is surprisingly difficult for you guys to find the courage to pull out a ram.

The game needs real incentives for winning the campaign.

And not only that. It also needs new incentives for reaching RR90, RR100, or even higher. Personally, I would even consider rescaling Renown back towards something closer to the original WAR system — although that would probably make Thorbolt jump straight from RR105 to RR140 — with a much more linear progression instead of the absurd system we have now, where you need roughly another 500,000 RR, then another 1,000,000 RR per level above RR80, and so on.

You only need to talk to the average RoR player to see how player motivation actually works.

People are constantly switching characters because:

"I have to finish my weekly quests."

As if it were a job.

Why?

Because they want the rewards. Because they need the carrot.

Why do people who don't even enjoy PvE still do PvE? Why do people who don't even enjoy SCs still do SCs?

Because of the carrot.

There is specific gear they need or want to complete. Maybe they will barely play that character afterwards, but at least they will have the full Lost Vale set.

Others run Bastion Stairs to save War Crests from Invader and have them ready when they reach RR78. They equip Sovereign, play the character until RR80 — RR81 if they're lucky — and then move on to the next alt.

And then they start all over again.

It is not necessarily because they find that content incredibly fun. They do it because there is a specific reward waiting for them at the end.

That is exactly what I think a revamped campaign needs.

A special, exclusive, desirable reward for winning the campaign.

Add a weekly quest to deliver 100 supplies, and you'll see plenty of supply haters moving boxes just to complete it. Carrot.

Not another way of earning War Crests. Not simply a few extra crests for capturing a zone. Something you cannot obtain just by farming kills for hours.

Give people an exclusive reward tied to actually winning the campaign, and I think you would suddenly see a huge part of the population start caring about winning zones, pulling out rams, defending fortresses, and pushing the campaign all the way to the end.

Because then winning the campaign would give them a carrot they currently don't have.

And we all know how this works.

As Waylon Smithers once said:

"But she's got a... new hat!"