Frustrating SCs against premade groups

[Fishineus]

Would it not be better to split queues for pug and premades? It's absolutley frustrating to play 10 games in a row against the same premades, without even standing a chance to win. I heard alot of ppl complaining about this in chat and tbh I'm about to quit this Game soon just because of this, since I play this game mostly for SCs and every day there is a time where you just can't queue because some premades are playing.

[Lion1986]

Premades exists in both rvr and scenario. Ppl like to play organized game. Make premade yourself too or adapt or quit. Your choice. You cannot blame players because they got differrent mentality from random zergers.
For the same context we should abolish rvr too because sometimes some guilds make premade 24 man wbs and zerg zones no?

[Fishineus]

The topic is for SCs not for RvR. The idea of a SC in my opinion is to have a smaller and more ballanced fight with same numbers of players and classes. Also I dont say there should not be premade gameplay but just split the both so its less frustrating for players and have better and more fun games.
Also i already played in a premade group myself and even there its not fun to run over a pug group and then waiting the SC to end since enemies went afk.

[Lion1986]

In my humble opinion you keep blaming premades in favor of brainless pugs. Rvr got ruined already for that mentality and splitting premade queues with randoms will make scenarios dead once more . I personally run premades in weekends for faster wins and fast weekly points. Saying premades are bad because some players prefeer approach an aspect of the game in a studied way is simply ridiculous.

[JohnnyWayne]

In SCs the match maker already tries to match Premades vs Premades. It causes longer wait times for full premades, which I consider to be fine.

Personally, I'd like to have incentives for people to group up, instead of going solo. E.g. improved losing rewards, so that losing does not hit as hard when you win the lottery and you get some sweaties with bis gear.

The match maker then would still try to match premades and premades, but you'd get better rewards if they lose as an incentive to form up and compete.

[Aluviya]

I don't mean this in a rude way, but at some point you could almost just play the game offline against NPCs — although, to be fair, a lot of scenarios already feel like that to me, with or without premades.

This is still an MMORPG. Organisation, socialising and actually playing together are supposed to be integral parts of the genre. Yet the game has already been pushed extremely far in the opposite direction, to the point where scenarios increasingly feel like a PUG amusement park with unicorns and glitter-paved streets.

There is already very little incentive to build anything larger than a duo or trio, because the moment you organise a proper group your queue times become significantly worse. Splitting the queues even further would only reinforce that problem and basically punish people for organising themselves in an MMO.

I completely understand that a large part of the MMORPG playerbase is older and may not have the time or desire to organise groups every evening. That's perfectly reasonable. But I don't think the solution can be to gradually turn every piece of content into exclusively PUG-oriented content.

And whether people believe it or not, I think this has consequences for the overall quality of scenarios.

From my perspective, the quality of SCs has declined significantly since the introduction of the new queue system (because it highly favours PUG gameplay due to the mentioned pairing against other premades). A lot of players entering scenarios nowadays seem to have very little ambition to actually fight as a team, or sometimes even to perform the basic responsibilities of their role. And I am not talking about advanced coordinated play here. I mean absolute fundamentals: guarding someone as a tank, assisting another DPS, throwing out a HoT as a healer, or simply paying attention to what the rest of your group is doing.

Instead, you frequently get something resembling a group of lemmings where everybody runs around doing their own thing, completely independently of any concept of teamplay.

Of course that is frustrating when you then run into an organised group. But isn't that partly the point? An organised group should have an advantage over twelve people who refuse to cooperate with each other.

The better question, in my opinion, is how the game can encourage more people to organise, communicate and improve rather than continuously redesigning the queue so that organisation matters less and less.

Because if every response to "premades are beating PUGs" is to further isolate or discourage premades, eventually there is very little reason left to form groups at all — and I don't think that is particularly healthy for an MMORPG either.

[Boernsen]

We need solo RVR next.
No grouping allowed, no warband allowed.
Disable the invite function, do not even allow guildinvites anymore.

[Inwaves]

This is still an MMORPG. Organisation, socialising and actually playing together are supposed to be integral parts of the genre. Yet the game has already been pushed extremely far in the opposite direction, to the point where scenarios increasingly feel like a PUG amusement park with unicorns and glitter-paved streets.

There is already very little incentive to build anything larger than a duo or trio, because the moment you organise a proper group your queue times become significantly worse. Splitting the queues even further would only reinforce that problem and basically punish people for organising themselves in an MMO.

I completely understand that a large part of the MMORPG playerbase is older and may not have the time or desire to organise groups every evening. That's perfectly reasonable. But I don't think the solution can be to gradually turn every piece of content into exclusively PUG-oriented content.

Well I used to play a fair bit of one MMO, where tryhard competitive PvP was done with long-term premade grps. Also the same group would do "the good" pve . So, having a perma team was a must basically. But, this game also prohibited any form of groups for "scenarios", which were casual PvP content. So you'd be matched against your usual teammates all the time. Was good while it lasted.

Also, I like the example of dota2 (and similar). Very team game, skillbased etc. But most of players are "pugs". And it just works. Any 3k MMR premade will be crushed no chance by a random mix of 10k MMR soloquers who permamute each other.

I'm trying to say that mmo, teamplay and pug-friendly are not mutually exclusive. And pugfriendly is the priority.

[Boernsen]

Seriously though, what is wrong with you people?

It is almost impossible to get reliable SC pops anymore when queuing as six people. You are at the point where you have to tell friends/guild members that you can't take them into your 3- or 4-man group because it would drastically reduce your pops. RvR is worse than ever—a complete blobfest—and is therefore also not an option for many.

Grouping for SCs should be encouraged and rewarded more. The more people you queue with, the higher the rewards should be. It's the only way I could see more people potentially forming full groups.

[Inwaves]

Grouping for SCs should be encouraged and rewarded more. The more people you queue with, the higher the rewards should be. It's the only way I could see more people potentially forming full groups.

You seem to want to force your preferred way of playing (which is the minority apparently) upon the majority who would rather not.