Think I've joined this game too late!

[EnglishBob]

Your frustration is valid. Heard the same from other new players and also seen video POVs of fresh 40's in SCs (a lot of suffer).
I've noticed this guy, name's Benlir.

Thanks for the reply, esp. the validation of the feeling of being underpowered.

So this is interesting: Benlir's (a WP) last deaths have come from RR91, 84. 81, 89, 86. 86, 85, 86, 81, and 82. Again all RR80+. Either nobody sub-80 can kill him, or (more likely) they don't exist in a lot of scenarios? Either way tells a story. I think I'm seeing the pattern here...

Open RVR is more of a leveller. I can hide in the blob .

[Inwaves]

Your frustration is valid. Heard the same from other new players and also seen video POVs of fresh 40's in SCs (a lot of suffer).
I've noticed this guy, name's Benlir.

Thanks for the reply, esp. the validation of the feeling of being underpowered.

So this is interesting: Benlir's (a WP) last deaths have come from RR91, 84. 81, 89, 86. 86, 85, 86, 81, and 82. Again all RR80+. Either nobody sub-80 can kill him, or (more likely) they don't exist in a lot of scenarios? Either way tells a story. I think I'm seeing the pattern here...

Open RVR is more of a leveller. I can hide in the blob .

Well there's adjacent thread about SC winrates, they have a link to some parser out there. Maybe it has rr % distribution in it, that way you'll see the exact stats you're talking about. My guess is 2/3 of order SC pop is around rr 80.

I've played some similar games, it always the same, there's some form of new player suffer and catch-up mechanics. Just how the genre is.

This game is comparatively good in this regard, as there are catch up mechanics in form of PVE and RVR and, most importantly, community is accepting in those. Also, rr 80 takes 1-2 months. For the perspective, in my previous "main" game lowgear characters were routinely votekicked from "scenarios". And got leaver debuff for it lul. So much that the devs had to disable inspecting in "scenarios".

[Lescargo]

The gap is mental; if you have a fighting spirit and make the effort to be patient and put in the work, you'll reach RR80 and become a high performer faster than you think.

[kleinbuchstabe]

Time and again, new players think the problem lies in their gear or renown rank. But I believe the only classes that have real problems with low lvl gear are melee DPS. For everyone else, it realy doesnt matter that much - especially not for tanks and healers (unless they also want to try playing as melee DPS).

As a tank, you can get by just fine from the Conqueror set if you are using a shield and go full def. Sure you wont swallow as much as a full sov tank, but still you can fullfill your role as valid guard tank for 100%. F.e. I have a RR83 SnB chosen who doesnt use sov gear at all, cause there is just no need to do so.

As a healer, your survival depends mainly on positioning, cc and debuff management (detaunt), and less on gear. No robe will make you more resilient Thanks to the Willpower tactic, your healing output is actually very fine right from the start, and you’re already a valuable asset to a group even at low levels. You are never really a burden to a group as long as you do your job.

From a group's perspective, I can say that the only thing that really feels like a weight to carry, are low melee DPS. Low lvl Tanks or healers arent usually a problem, as long as they know what theyre doing.

[Kylashandra]

Over the years I have filled all of my characters slots with lvl 40s, because I like playing all classes. Only 2 of them are 80+, most of them rr60ish... It doesnt really matter as long as you run dungeons : Dark Promise / Valewalker / Bloodlord (depending on classes) is way enough to enjoy playing SCs even with low rrs, and it doesnt take much time (you can be fully PvE geared within 1 or 2 weeks).

[EnglishBob]

Time and again, new players think the problem lies in their gear or renown rank.

Do you ever ask yourself why? They've learned the class, they know their abilities, yet something changes and they identify a problem. What's changed? One thing: they're now playing against players who are much higher level, in better gear, with more renown points to spend, better talismans, better potions... All upsides, zero downsides.

Frankly, I think you're underestimating the difference. Nothing else explains this huge degradation in survivability the moment you hit level 40 and get thrown into the RR80+ meat grinder. I'm not talking about healing output (which naturally drops off due to being dead more often or just running for your life). re positioning - are you saying healers should fight at the front line by the tanks? That doesn't work. Are you suggesting they hang back and heal from a distance? That doesn't work. The only thing that's semi-effective is either hiding behind a wall or something, or trying to constantly move so you're not a static target. But nothing is particularly effective, or effective for long. We (RP) don't use Willpower too much, so that tactic gets dropped for more Armor (didn't need that pre-40). You cannot heal through a DPS attacking you, they'll be critting you way quicker than you can heal and debuffing you faster than you can get rid of the debuffs (which is on a cooldown). The best players will even order their debuffs so the one that sticks is their preferred one! Even when getting a tank guard it quite often isn't enough if there are multiple DPS classes focusing on you. Detaunt (also on a cooldown) might buy you another couple of seconds, assuming you get to use abilities and haven't been knocked down.

Now, in a 12v12 scenario even if I was literally useless, there is still a respectable chance the team would win, assuming everything else was even, for interesting mathematical reasons. In a smaller fight, say 6v6, carrying me is an almost guaranteed loss unless the opposition also have someone unable to contribute much.

Ah well, such is life. Other games are no better - try playing WoW battlegrounds with a PUG and low-level gear and you'll get farmed there too. I've seen it from both sides. You might think it's a reward for time played? All this talk of getting the positioning right etc. and it's fine is just talk that doesn't match the reality. But this game is old and it won't change now to somehow squash the gap. I get it.

[Stinksuit]

Its not fully fitting this topic but anyhow, we have talked about scenarios having different "brackets".
For example;

You'd have your obv t1, t2-3 but t4 is where the changes would come into play. We talked that t4 could have atleast 2 separate brackets (maybe more but likely not possible due to low pop).

T4 would be separated into a "fresh cr40 bracket with players below certain rr/ilvl (like rr70/tri ilvl which is 52ilvl iirc). And then youd have your "bis geared" rr70+ players in their own bracket. This is not perfect by any means, few reasons being the low population and splitting people even more with this system and 2nd being, this system would prevent friends from playing together in sc if one has a character in the "fresh cr40" bracket and other is in the "bis" bracket.

Overall I do want to think this system would benefit players more than harm them and it would also increase the general sc population when fresh players know they dont have to face bis players and also makes better matches for the bis players when someone in full greens without talismans isnt "griefing" the scenario for them.

[Coocooclock]

I naively thought there would be a spread of RRs. To test this (poor) theory, I sampled the RRs from a 12v12 scenario, which we won (no thanks to me):

Avg order RR: 80.25
Avg destro RR: 81.08

So naive! Of course it's almost entirely RR80+ players. Clearly the game has been live for so long that the gap is now a gulf. What a shame.

You can do whatever you want but yeah, my recommendation would be do not do sc's until you are rr 80 in bis or near bis gear. For the exact reason that you just mentioned. At rr48 what i did was i stayed in open rvr lakes until i got higher rr. I mean i did try one or two sc's at like rr 50 and i found out that i got painfully skinned alive

[Lescargo]

The game is actually pretty well designed for an old and drastic mmo; there’s a bolster system, you can join a warband, and your lack of gear, renown and skills gets diluted among the mass of players.. ez game tbh.

Of course, you could always look for a game with a perfectly level playing field—like Counter-Strike, for instance—but you risk getting schooled by veterans; matchmaking is never perfect. Even without a gear gap, people can still smurf or derank. The moment you engage in PvP, you have to accept that you’ll sometimes face opponents who are far more stronger than you.
Unless, perhaps, you have an inflated ego and simply refuse to get crushed?

[derKleineKerl]

You dont need willpower when playing a RP?^^

Just lvl to rr 58 get Vanquisher gear and you will feel a lot more usefull. At least on every healer i played vanq gear was more than enough to play any content maybe except ranked. You dont need to be in bis gear to decide a sc match as a healer.