Are you ever going to address ridiculous advantage Destruction has in sieges?

[wardfan220]

There are a bunch of partially tangled issues here:

1. Can it be fixed?

The answer is clearly no.

2. Does Order have a different ability that gives them an advantage in these scenarios?

I am not aware of it but others may have something they'd like to suggest.

3. Related, is the ability realm balanced i.e. does Order have a direct analog?

It does not on any class.


I am not in favor of removing abilities. I actually think pulls are good for the game and add flavor. But I would absolutely support making an analog of GTDC available to Order. My own preference here would be a new tactic for SM that turns "Gusting Wind" (aoe punt) into "Cyclonic Vortex" (aoe pull). But I'm biased there.

I don't even care if Order gets the same skill. What I want is to be able to rez. If the pull(and let's be honest ALL of destro pulls pull through walls) is allowed through the keep door, then so should resses, it's literally that simple.

[Shieldslam]

This has been going on for ages and a few people seem to realize while the rest throws **** around coping and screaming "skill/positional issue".

Destro:
1. AOEpull + 20% mspeed while channeling on 30s cd, pulling people through walls for years at this point
2. AOEkd 20s cd on a melee dps
3. 6s Unstoppable/Immovable for the entire group + 10% dmg reduction + 30% mspeed on 30s cd

Order:
1. no AOEpull (technically Engi does but so does Magus)
2. no AOEkd
3. same ability but without the mspeed so it's not really worth it

Sure is a surprise why Order wbs have less and less mdps join when they have to deal with all that. But surely nerfed Rampage makes up for all that!
Truly genius to let the melee focused faction have aoepull/kd + unstop with 30% mspeed so they can literally just run through Order squishy ranged line.

[leftayparxoun]

2. Does Order have a different ability that gives them an advantage in these scenarios?

I am not aware of it but others may have something they'd like to suggest.

If "these scenarios" refers to Sieges, then:


When Order is sieging:

• Order's advantage mainly comes from the larger availability of Ranged AOE direct damage and especially DoT abilities; Skirmish SW and (the newly added) Ranged AOE BW don't have mirrors on Destro

• The (newly reworked) Artillery Barrage M4 for Grenadier Engi is VERY strong when it comes to keeping the main door entrance block-free during pushes. Arguably the same can be said for the (newly reworked) SW Scout Tree M4. Neither of them have a Destro mirror.

When Order is defending:

• Essentially the existence of KOTBS with the "Dirty Tricks" and "Focused Mending" tactics makes Order healers life MUCH easier compared to Destro equivalents. Both during pushes and before they happen.

• The (newly reworked) Flame Shield party buff that BWs provide to their parties can be VERY potent when it comes to reducing AOE pressure from AOE DoTs for everyone inside the keep/fort.

Of course Destruction has more unique advantages besides Choppa pull when it comes to sieges (e.g. Tank Morale self-pumps, BO/BG block channels, BG mid-tree M4, BG unique M2, etc.) so in general I'd say both sides have their unique tools for that content. And that's a good thing.

[CountTalabecland]

Destro has life 1000% easier during sieges because of this one ability.

As Destro, there are like 2 Engis on the server with magnet equipped. Not really a threat and at least the engi has to expose themselves to getting pulled during set up.

As Order, there is literally a sea of choppas spamming this ability (no LoS required) on cool down, plus maras pulling whoever shows themselves near the door.

While pushing a door as Order you have no choice but to run into the blender.

The counter that Order has to this was Rampage and that was removed and Order got nothing back.

[Sinisterror]

Destro has life 1000% easier during sieges because of this one ability.

As Destro, there are like 2 Engis on the server with magnet equipped. Not really a threat and at least the engi has to expose themselves to getting pulled during set up.

As Order, there is literally a sea of choppas spamming this ability (no LoS required) on cool down, plus maras pulling whoever shows themselves near the door.

While pushing a door as Order you have no choice but to run into the blender.

The counter that Order has to this was Rampage and that was removed and Order got nothing back.

How Rampage was counter to pulls? That makes no sense : D Whoever changed Guard dmg to undefendable if the attack is undefendable is the reason why Rampage got super nerfed. Guard dmg doesnt take any info about the attack to the original target, doesnt matter if its range/magic you still parry or block the dmg(Block with shield obviously) so why would someone be so greedy/stupid to change guard dmg is undefendable if attack is undefendable? Back when rampage still existed after this very poor change, tanks were the first ones to die in fights Something is srlsy wrong when this is the normal state

They should have just reversed guard dmg back to what it has always been(actually guard used to be even better, it was 30% dmg taken by guardee instead of 50%) and change aoe cap back to 9 and remove morale dmg cap, give the old 60-80ft Aoe Dmg morales back and it could be Healer or melee dps that had these morales - Then return the 50% Aoe healdebuff tactics and make all Knockdowns 2s(Only tanks had 3s or more KDs) and return all the powerful things like 65ft aoe Stagger 9s! 9s is a along time and actually requires you to stop spamming aoe and do focused dmg or you will ruin everything and your grp dies.

The game was much more fun when there existed counter plays, tactics not just running over everything, the skill of 2026 average ror player is so bad and they can have close to bis gear its almost impressive how bad they are in the game but there is nothing forcing you to learn the game because just bringing aoe dmg will always win

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Zw4FUPacc Change Magus/Engi pull back to this and allow ressing without los when inside or close to Keeps=) People wont want these changes but they will keep crying until there is 50 players left due max nerfs

[coldhunter]

Its actually funny, that order having much more forts/kills almost all the time, but always whinning about how hard them to play, because all destro classes is super op. But, when they trying to play on "op" destro - they usually running back to super "hard" order in few days. Mb because this 2 days they, sometimes, cant even leave wc, because of gank-groups/wbs? Nah, they just dont like "evil" faction, that the reason, why they cant play destro, ofc :3

Btw, how do you, guys, will comment this statistic https://maartenson.net/ror_campaign_sta ... ?window=7d ? How is it possible, that so OP destro loosing so hard? I just curious to see, how you will wriggle against pure numbers

[nocturnalguest]

Its actually funny, that order having much more forts/kills almost all the time, but always whinning about how hard them to play, because all destro classes is super op. But, when they trying to play on "op" destro - they usually running back to super "hard" order in few days. Mb because this 2 days they, sometimes, cant even leave wc, because of gank-groups/wbs? Nah, they just dont like "evil" faction, that the reason, why they cant play destro, ofc :3

Btw, how do you, guys, will comment this statistic https://maartenson.net/ror_campaign_sta ... ?window=7d ? How is it possible, that so OP destro loosing so hard? I just curious to see, how you will wriggle against pure numbers

Wriggle? Lol man, forum is digital diary for whinning, what numbers, reason, what are those words even?! Its not about logic. Just pure hardcore, rant, toxicity. None of the posters is actually interested in any discussion cmon, dont be naive

[TrainInVain]

Assuming equal numbers, the biggest factor I see is who has the most tanks who aren't afraid of pixel death. It all comes down the doorways. I see it happen on both sides that tanks won't push or won't block the door.

Who brings and actually uses cannons on attack imo has a far greater impact than any faction advantages. I see keep and fort attacks ya you brought cannons. You are lucky if you have one or two people use them, and only one makes it inside. So often I see cannons despawn because the person who brought it goes off to guard a postern. Some keeps are very difficult for rdps to hit the oil, you need cannons to destroy oil ASAP. Both sides are very adept to spawning oil and jumping main.

[coldhunter]

Wriggle? Lol man, forum is digital diary for whinning, what numbers, reason, what are those words even?! Its not about logic. Just pure hardcore, rant, toxicity. None of the posters is actually interested in any discussion cmon, dont be naive

Wise words, my friend, wise words. But man can have a dream, right ?

[anaxandus]

Of cours i know about what you refering.
Dont stand there, you wish to be pulled and got pulled.
There is planty of safe space there for every archetype.
If you are showing yourself with risk of geting pulled you need to have good plan why you stand there.There was times where those abbilities ware realy bugged/work wrong, but those are not those times.

We had an elf fort defense today so it saved me the time from having to walk over. I literally got pulled from this place here, right outsite into twirling choppa. And before you try to gaslight me into saying it was mara, it wasnt. So dont hit me with that "its not bugged anymore". It is.
And again, they do not have to consider this at all. We had a Caledor defense yesterday where they led a push with a zealot trying to kb us all from 3rd. Try do that on order.

Its actually funny, that order having much more forts/kills almost all the time, but always whinning about how hard them to play, because all destro classes is super op. But, when they trying to play on "op" destro - they usually running back to super "hard" order in few days. Mb because this 2 days they, sometimes, cant even leave wc, because of gank-groups/wbs? Nah, they just dont like "evil" faction, that the reason, why they cant play destro, ofc :3

Btw, how do you, guys, will comment this statistic https://maartenson.net/ror_campaign_sta ... ?window=7d ? How is it possible, that so OP destro loosing so hard? I just curious to see, how you will wriggle against pure numbers

I literally said in op that if someone has something else to complain about, open the thread. What, order had more success in the last week? So? Order took 3 forts yesterday cause there was barely any destro. Still has absolutely nothing with the issue im putting out here. I remember when destro had 14-0 fort advantage few months ago, still doesnt matter in this context.
Btw, if you really wanted to use facts, you would post the count of kills that were gained via pulls in comparison to total amount of kills. But sure, its not that broken, destro runs choppa train all the time for like no reason at all. /sarcasm off