[PTS] AoE BW feedback

[wonshot]

Hello,


While not too much was changed for AoE BW. I still decited to make an overall commentary video about the general BW changes and mostly from an AoE perspective. I very much acknowledge the AoE BW situations is different from both Smallscale/6man timestamping BW, and solo roaming kite/burst/sustain situatin for BW. That is why I try to devide it. I saw there was an other BW feedback post, I read it, and I was close to just dumping my feedback in his. But that poster seemed to have a more all-around outlook on the class with the Class mechainic, and highlighting very different talking points that I am touching on, though with some overlap. Moderators please merge the posts if you deem that the correct approach.

Commentary patchnote video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkC3OYnOHLQ
Im mostly touching on the new general Mage tactics here.
Then abit on Detonate + Mini ignites & the Synergy with Igniton (which I cant see making any difference for Order, or for BW)
And then finishing off talking about the AoE playstyle of BW, "fun", and giving some perspectives about what depth the build and class could have and I had hoped for.

My questions to the fellow aoe bws:
1) Do you play with Flashfire?
2) Do you run FireballBarrage or Backdraft?
3) What do you find fun about aoe BW, and do you agree or disagree with my talking points about depth in the build? Disagreements are welcome!
4) Any suggestions for Backdraft alternative 13point ability, remake of Backdraft itself, or comments on having a Spamable/filler aoe ability?

I think its important to keep BW aoe history involved here too.
To my memory VII on Live had a IC city fight against some AoR devs, they got omega bombed out the instance by old version of Closequaters (+25%dmg within 45ft and only 80%of normal damage further then 45ft away) Then Scoreched Earth ability was changed from a Builder of Combustion, to a Spender.

Now ive touched a little bit about this in the past with feedback, how especially in T1 BW/sorc dont really have mobile class mechanic gaining after Scoreched Earth was changed from a builder to a spender. I understand how having just a builder in SE was maybe bad and dumb gameplay, but arnt we kinda in the same situation with Flamebreath atm? Am I the only person who would like to not see a full overhaul of the mechanic, but a little bit more incentive to use the one Spender ability we have left. A mixture or either of, the suggestions with Making Backdraft fitting better into the close range build. Maybe including CQ tactic to enable movement during Annihilate but only at 60% movementspeed while channeling. Having some incentive of consuming and spending Combustion/Darkmagic with SE.

Again I feel the need to highlight this, BW is pretty balanced! Aoe BW is doing Better than ST and solo BW! By far!
But there was a chance here to make it less spammy, add more depth, and a little bit of player choice. Detonate almost did that, but it missed its mark imho.

What do you think, about Aoe BW changes?

[kholmatman]

When i first read the patch i saw a new way of playing ST roam / Ranged AoE when blob: the AOE corpo debuff on Minor Ignite with Detonate on top, into Scorched Earth damages (or Rain Of Fire if need distance). Play that with 'Flashfire' and u have your (decent) AoE burst while in your roam spe! Meaning you AoE but ranged, not melee! Amazing ! But after test i realize this will just encourage more BW to play with 'Fiery reserve' / Spamming Firebreath. All because Detonation gets in fact nerfed with the patch.

PST XP feedback :

- Detonate i think its a (big) nerf. Detonate how it was: AoE spreading ability is gone/gutted. This is a big nerf for 'Flashfire' tactic's user because Detonation is a 99% chance to proc the tactic.
+ Minor Ignite is not equal because it is a 1x time AoE proc whereas Detonation was dealing AoE dmg over 9sec surrounding the original target (was a very fun spell for that!)
Detonate should stack with Minor Ignite (if it is self ignite). Or it would just be replacing an AoE spreading ability by a (not) spreading one. Also nerfed, as you need a rotation that will have to pass the disruption wall BWs are facing.
But as i said i hoped that would create a new way for range AoE... it needs at least 2 stacks of DoT AoE. If you think of Spreading the Flames then you think of this spe :RoR.builders - Bright Wizard
Its the same choice that was available in Vanilla, yes with the corpo debuff on top, but its not viable. it can't burst a solo target, does not have the heal debuff, and does considerably less dmg than a proper AoE Dps of any class. If u take the debuff heal and use the rework of Minor Slow Boil instead Ignition. I'm still not tempted.

In my (dream) i was hoping this spe could be playable in my roam party with ranged AoE available when facing blob : RoR.builders - Bright Wizard.
It is already playable but the AoE is very low. I thought the goal was to buff that. it needs the old Detonate back with the Minor Ignite on top and its new corporal AoE debuff.

Or maybe u just thinking of buffing the 'city' spe : RoR.builders - Bright Wizard. i see how the annihilate buff fits in there. I don't see why Detonate needed a rework tough.

-M3 Hearth of Fire rework is wrong. A DPS shouldnt have a support moral. It was a survability moral but if you removed the HP gained: i don't know what it is anymore. I'd say it needed a buff in HP gained, only.

All the rest: big fan!

----------------------

My questions to the fellow aoe bws:

Oy' @bombling Sensei,
hope those weren't rethorical lol

- yes for Flashfire
- yes for backdraft: another Sensei told me that Empire classes don't have enough cc for the BW not to gear Backdraft... And it's very interesting ability. It really challenges a player to use it right
- If i understand you, you advocate for a new playstyle with more mobility overall in the AoE spe?
- im fine with Backdraft now, but why not think on it.

i think it well balanced too
- I am not sure its AoE > ST. Yes AoE do more damage, but i met others Sensei that can do more kills in ST! Some are in TUP, and some are casual players.And it's RvR vs PvP: not the same game.
I remember that when they changed Scorched Earth it wasn't for the gameplay -which was dumb idd - it was because it was too OP. And they nerfed the stacking of Rain Of Fire too (i played inge at the time idc). So maybe mobility AoE BW should be seriously limited indeed. Maybe that's why devs decided to up Annihilate this patch: too compensate the lack of mobility, i donno.
I am not playing with Flame of breath 1 button meta and still i don't lack mobility (meaning i am still having fun even chasin' my lead WL!). Mostly because i can use Detonation for a 'Flashfire' proc WHILE running. I am ok if the other BWs plays Fiery reserve / Explosion / Firebreath spamm. They indeed do more damage. But its too boring, its a choice.

[fillfillfillfill]

1) Do you play with Flashfire?
Yes.
2) Do you run FireballBarrage or Backdraft?
Backdraft 90% of the time. Burning Head for forts, but rarely in the lakes, but it depends on if you can have the kind of fights where m4 is better than more dmg from conflag tree.
3) What do you find fun about aoe BW, and do you agree or disagree with my talking points about depth in the build? Disagreements are welcome!
I love when you perfectly circle the incoming damage to position perfectly to unleash a giga silence into channel into FF. Outside of a fort winning Burning Head drop, this is the most satisfying series of abilities in the game for me.

I think skill expression is limited on this class outside of FF, silence and movement.
4) Any suggestions for Backdraft alternative 13point ability, remake of Backdraft itself, or comments on having a Spamable/filler aoe ability?
New ability 13P ability:
Root break & Charge. 7s duration. 45s CD.
Backdraft is now a 2s KD to all targets 25ft in front of you. 30s CD.
Flame walking of some sort. Increased movement speed by 30% and you immolate nearby (25ft around you) enemies for 9s.
Ground targetted puddle that snares for 60% while inside and leaves a disrupt debuff for 15s. 30s CD.
Teleport ability, think WL jump or SW shadowstep
An aoe ability that grows in radius and potency based on combustion, think like WE Sacrifical Stab where you'd melt away defences or disrupt chance based on current level of combustion.

Idk, just some brainstorming.
Ty for post.

[wonshot]

.. ability that grows in radius and potency based on combustion..

Uhh that tickled my interest! No idea if an ability like that could even be coded. But anything that scales with combustion, or would make for more Class mechanic play is something Im longing for, personally.

13 point could also be a flameing aura you place on yourself for 10sec.
Depending on which ability you have last used it does something differently.(or next use)
Annihilate last used: Scorched Earth now consumes 40 combustion per use but is garenteed to crit and has 15%critdmg on targets below 30%
Scorched Earth last used: Flamebreath is now an instant frontal ability
Rain of Fire last used: Rain of Fire now gains 10%critchance for 9sec
Fiery Blast last used: Fiery Blast now has 50% additional chance to Combust (for CQ / Explosive force builds)

Imagine the options per global cooldown, atleast for 10sec

[Hypernia]

Flash fire is mandatory for double proc fiery blast on damage drop.

Backdraft is a terrible skill - would love for the knockback to be removed and made into a useful skill. Even just the dot would be nice. I don't personally run backdraft or FBB, taking 15 points in right tree to max tooltip damage on fiery blast, flame breath, and annihilate.

Overall I love playing the BW since its just mega braindead and that means wb leading gets all the headspace and playing the class requires none. Run in, spam flame breath, fiery blast, and annihilate and call it a day.

We have BWs who outperform me hard on damage running FBB, but the role is a little different.

[fillfillfillfill]

Backdraft is a terrible skill - would love for the knockback to be removed and made into a useful skill. Even just the dot would be nice. I don't personally run backdraft or FBB, taking 15 points in right tree to max tooltip damage on fiery blast, flame breath, and annihilate.

Surely as a warband leader you would see the usefulness in an AOE punt that isn't parried, but disrupted, requires no setup, would be used from DPS in the frontlines, does a lot of damage and is one of a limited amount of area denials abilities.
Surely it's at the very least situational, rather than terrible. I mean, I made a list of abilities I could imagine in its place, so I'm not a huge fan of it myself, but it has to be situational rather than terrible.

And please, keep adding more ability rework ideas or replacement ideas for the Devs to (HOPEFULLY) draw inspiration from!

[lumpi33]

Backdraft is now a 2s KD to all targets 25ft in front of you. 30s CD.

I was also thinking that.

Backdraft should switch position in the tree with the Spreading Flames. 2s KD, 20s CD, 25ft radius. It would help a little bit with holding people in place while bombing and giving healers a bit more time when they are being pulled or focused.

That would be similar to the Mara in the tree position with Mara having 2s KD, 20s CD, 25ft in front. The Mara version would still be better since melees are always in front and have charge to run in doing it.