[PTS] rdps feedback

[lumpi33]

So here are my results after having tested all rdps classes:

#1 Magus: 1600-1700 dps is doable on the training construct. The new 50% cast reduction tactic is madness together with Bolt of Change. The pet is hitting pretty hard. It has a dps of 350ish alone. Higher if you use the 15% buff for all sources with Withered Soul. I think that both the Swift Flames and the Withered Soul is currently too strong. Swift Flames should be like: 1s reduced cast time but 25% reduced damage. Withered Soul should be 10% not 15% and only for the others, not for the magus. Magus can do its strongest rotation with Withered Soul, Baneful Transmogifrication, Surging Violet Fire and Bolt of Change with almost no downtime. It's clearly overpowered. EDIT: Magus detailed feedback: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=61111

#2 Engi: 1300-1400 dps is doable. It is not as good as the magus but better than the other rdps atm. Their problem is the physical damage. They need weaponskill as secondary stat which the magus doesn't need. Therefore they need additional tactics like Fighing Chance and Thunderer leaving them with only 2 tactic slots for the goodies while Magus has 4 free slots for all the goodies. Their strongest rotation needs Armor-piercing rounds for 25% more penetration but that's on a 60s cooldown while the Magus can do it's strongest rotation with almost no cooldown. Signal Flare is the same as Withered Soul basically and is too strong.

#3 SH: 1000-1300 dps is doable. It got nerfed a bit but is still pretty good. For their strongest burst they need squig frenzy and squig beast - both on a 60s cooldown. Still a very decent class with very good utility and escapes.

#4 SW: 1000-1200 dps. Didn't do that much testing on the SW but both the scout and the skirmish build feeling weaker than before. To catch up to the SH dps with his pet they need Steady Aim which is pretty painful since it drains the AP so freaking fast. For their strongest rotation they need Vengeance - which is on a 30s cooldown. Utility is weaker than the SH one.

#5 Sorc: 800-1000 dps. EDIT: More like 800-1200 with better build. The new Obsessive Focus tactic is pretty good. They gain 10% damage bonus and -10% disrupt from it and the cooldown is reduced to 20s. They can get another -5% disrupt from the Magus Withered Soul. Overall it feels bad compared to the other rdps. Maybe I did something wrong but I barely managed to get to 1000dps while the Magus/Engi/SH/SW can pull that off pretty easily. All while having to fight that stupid high disrupts from players, hurting myself and having bad escapes. EDIT: Sorc detailed feedback: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=61123

# 6 BW: 700-900 dps. Like the sorc they have major issues with the high disrupt rates vs players. They don't have that Obsessive Focus of the Sorc so they can't reduce their disrupt and the Engi Signal Flare gives -5% dodge, not disrupt like the Magus does. Feels the worst of all the rdps classes. They now have 3 things that hurt them while trying to do damage. The mechanic, the Funnel Power and the new Searing Vitality. Another one from the chosen reflection aura. WTF? All for doing less damage than the other rdps classes? Not worth playing at all. It's like constantly shooting yourself in the knees.

Id be happy if you prove me wrong but that are the numbers I was able to get.

[buerdig]

Have you tried testing in duels instead of training construct? The construct is good for getting the rotation and a general idea, but a lot of people use the garden to get a more practical test where the variables are not in perfect conditions?

[lumpi33]

Have you tried testing in duels instead of training construct? The construct is good for getting the rotation and a general idea, but a lot of people use the garden to get a more practical test where the variables are not in perfect conditions?

These were all on training construct. For Sorcs/BWs I just know that their disrupt rate vs players is crazy high (especially healers, def tanks, stealthers with their immunity buff). I added that because I'm really surprised that nothing has been done about it - especially after seeing how bad their damage is.

It would be great if they could add different test dummies with player like gear and renown. Like a Healer dummy with high disrupt, a caster dummy with cloth armor, a tank dummy with high defenses...

[siglade]

Id be happy if you prove me wrong but that are the numbers I was able to get.

Number are fine but doesn't really give you a good view about the power of the class. Some class are truly amazing to kill dummies but in real pvp below the rest. Appreciate the feedback with details, thanks.

[buerdig]

What I like to do, and you will find a lot of people willing is heading to the arena and just try using each other as the "dummy". Test with fights against "almost" BiS characters. I'm not sure but sometimes people will run SCs I believe if people coordinate it. Like you said, there are so many variables when you factor in disrupts, things being cleansed, getting CC'd, adding CC's to the rotations, heals. The construct is nice because it is the same for everyone, but it can also be misleading because it is the same for everyone. Just a suggestion since you clearly have put the effort in to test every rdps, I would be happy to help you with this also.

[lumpi33]

The test dummies are important because they have constant health (I hope) and you get some stats after killing. Without that it is hard to compare things. But yeah, as you said, there are many factors, synergies, different armor types, etc. that influence the outcome but you gotta start somewhere. If you can see on the test dummies that a magus almost doubles a BW focus damage then well... no need for further testing. Both doing magical damage so it is very well comparable. Damage is also not the only thing that matters. Utility/Escapes/Survivability matters a lot as well since dead players don't do damage.

[siglade]

The test dummies are important because they have constant health (I hope) and you get some stats after killing. Without that it is hard to compare things. But yeah, as you said, there are many factors, synergies, different armor types, etc. that influence the outcome but you gotta start somewhere. If you can see on the test dummies that a magus almost doubles a BW focus damage then well... no need for further testing. Both doing magical damage so it is very well comparable. Damage is also not the only thing that matters. Utility/Escapes/Survivability matters a lot as well since dead players don't do damage.

I will give you one example where dummy result never showed the power of a class/spec.

2h slayer was for a long time looked as a meme, unplayable class. dummy result was 20s kill average with a 3k burst which is terrible right. Yet we did 30 win 2 lose in ranked, had over 90% wr in scenario with premade and suddenly a lot of people started to play it after seeing the true potential of the spec.

I'm not going to say because of that dummy should never be taken into consideration but it should not be the only way to note a class.

[lumpi33]

The test dummies are important because they have constant health (I hope) and you get some stats after killing. Without that it is hard to compare things. But yeah, as you said, there are many factors, synergies, different armor types, etc. that influence the outcome but you gotta start somewhere. If you can see on the test dummies that a magus almost doubles a BW focus damage then well... no need for further testing. Both doing magical damage so it is very well comparable. Damage is also not the only thing that matters. Utility/Escapes/Survivability matters a lot as well since dead players don't do damage.

I will give you one example where dummy result never showed the power of a class/spec.

2h slayer was for a long time looked as a meme, unplayable class. dummy result was 20s kill average with a 3k burst which is terrible right. Yet we did 30 win 2 lose in ranked, had over 90% wr in scenario with premade and suddenly a lot of people started to play it after seeing the true potential of the spec.

I'm not going to say because of that dummy should never be taken into consideration but it should not be the only way to note a class.

Yeah, but there are too many factors involved. Like was the Slayer really the deciding factor there or was it someone else? Or did you simply had better assists and target calling or guards/heals. Hard to tell. Just because a class is bad doesn't mean that you can't win with it when you simply have the better group on your side. However, when it is good group vs good group then the situation is a different. Then the Slayer might die first, not being able to do any damage.

You are not wrong that the test dummies are not telling the full story. Sorcs can probably still pull off good bursts while running a bit out of steam on the dummy.

I'd still try to put them all into the same damage range first then do some tweaking after live has shown more detailed results. How else do you wanna balance it? Actually the BW/Sorc should have the highest damage because of their higher risk. No good escapes, self hurting, squishy... Having the highest risk, worst escapes and the lowest dps is a bit odd.

[Demonito]

BW changes seem a lil' better than Sorc :
Undefendable HD +5 more sec / AoE resis debuff
Makes BW ok with many teams while sorc still relies on magus/HD dps
As for the Focus tactic, spell got nerf by 5% so dmg is the same, I think
They both should deal more dmg, it's just a shame they didn't win real survival skills

About SH i'm curious how nobody care for self regen being removed
Idk why people say SH got bias, looks pretty equal nerf/boost ratio

SW : +15 feet tactic for Heal debuff look painful for destro
Then I'm clueless, just a bit sad assault doesn't look good

Hope dev will add few stuff for them before release

[Farrul]

So here are my results after having tested all rdps classes:

#1 Magus: 1600-1700 dps is doable on the training construct. The new 50% cast reduction tactic is madness together with Bolt of Change. The pet is hitting pretty hard. It has a dps of 350ish alone. Higher if you use the 15% buff for all sources with Withered Soul. I think that both the Swift Flames and the Withered Soul is currently too strong. Swift Flames should be like: 1s reduced cast time but 25% reduced damage. Withered Soul should be 10% not 15% and only for the others, not for the magus. Magus can do its strongest rotation with Withered Soul, Baneful Transmogifrication, Surging Violet Fire and Bolt of Change with almost no downtime. It's clearly overpowered.

This will be the patch of the Magus without any doubt if it goes live like that, the stars aligned for them , with all the little buffs added to them over time ( like full resistance 300 all buff and Armor increase buff when everyone else lost armor due to Armor pot nerf they and engineers did not suffer it).

Its really impressive the kind of numbers im seeing on the dummy, and i'm not even a Magus player( ive got to above 9K). The new teleport skill is hilarious when you take into account a RDPS that can be made tanky, has the best RDPS CC toolkit in the game.

Read this post, there are some fair points to take into consideration and thought as to why this keeps happening to certain classes.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=61114