¨Join Solo¨ and ¨Join Group¨

[Penril]

It's a little like if someone who loves Roguelikes hopped on an MMO and lamented about no perma deaths and really how freaking lame is it that all these casual players can stand this? A real gamer would take his perma death and learn to not die. Or get a great guild to collect his stuff should something happen. But not everyone wants to deal with perma deaths. It's not like anyone is wrong. It's just two people aiming for a different experience.

Terrible example is terrible. You have someone from a completely different gaming genre asking for RoR to be more like the genre he enjoys. Should a game be radically changed just because some people don't get how it is supposed to be played?


If i enjoy Fighting games, i go play Street Fighter. I don't ask RoR devs to give us unarmed combat.
If i enjoy FPS games, i play Fallout. I don't ask RoR devs to give us guns and grenades.
If i enjoy driving simulators, i play Gran Turismo. I don't ask RoR devs to give us cars.

If you want casual PvP with separate brackets/solo queues/whatever, go play some other game. WAR/RoR is about coordination and teamplay. Don't try to change it just because you want a "different experience".

[Tiggo]

Or to put it another way, what if I form a guild with a couple buddies and they're not on when I've got an hour to spare for SCs? I don't really feel like being part of a bigger guild. It's weird to hear someone say I'm playing the game wrong. With an MMO it's kind of the thing where you play the game however you like..

its not about telling you you play the game wrong, you can play whatever you want. but THEN dont come to this forum and demand changes (or not changes) or whine about premades and you always losing.

[grumcajs]

never though I would say that but I am really suprised how much ingorant players are posting here. I would not point fingers but when I reread whole discussion there are players who are posting thing A on one page and then post B that is completely different to A and then they continue in doing that with every post....

like saying there premade vs premade might be great and premades arent there to smash pugs but like competion etc, then - there is no problem premade smashing pugs and its only your fault you get smashed etc.

sorry but show me where is that competion you seek in fighting 2 premades vs. mix of lvl 12-20 random guys that could well be 2 dps healers, 1 lol dps tank and rest dps?

talking about learning and getting better in pve instance? for gods sake. what can u actually learn except that you have to be max lvl with "eng game" gear, only 1 viable spec and best possible talis and when u reach that you can start learning not to get roflstomped when u face premade.

and competion? ok - from pve pov - premade facing pugs is pretty much like being able to be in warpforged and doing t4 PQs with your grp. same tier? yea. challenging? competition? dont know.

1 thing that is true - well played premade should always roflstomp pugs and it should always be like that.

-----end of rant and back to topic :

Question that remains - should it be possible to face same premade X time in row? isnt it possible to somehow improve sc queue? like when destro get premade, give higher priority to order premade in sc queue and fill remaining slots with solo or duos etc.? that way you would have 1 premade on both sides and another 6 players providing meat shield. you can learn even from watching what is the premade doing (tanks moving with mdps providing guard, CC, assist ...) and learn that this is better than running around like headless chicken and trying to kill turtle tank etc.

[wargrimnir]

Or to put it another way, what if I form a guild with a couple buddies and they're not on when I've got an hour to spare for SCs? I don't really feel like being part of a bigger guild. It's weird to hear someone say I'm playing the game wrong. With an MMO it's kind of the thing where you play the game however you like..

its not about telling you you play the game wrong, you can play whatever you want. but THEN dont come to this forum and demand changes (or not changes) or whine about premades and you always losing.

Yet the demands started with a prefabricated issue where players attempting to queue as a group were dodging and causing unbalanced scenarios. Holding the normal queue hostage by continuing this behavior created the leverage on Aza to implement the group queue. Now the hostage takers want everyone who disagrees with them to quit the game because it's how they want it now. I suppose they will convert to your authoritarian takeover of the imposed meta of the game, or leave. Or queue solo with lv12 toons to annoy you.

[Penril]

Grumcajs, the reason some people are against separate queues is NOT because we want to farm pugs and bads all day. It is because our waiting times would increase by a lot.

So instead, we are giving some suggestions on how to quickly form a premade, so there is actually BETTER competition in SCs. "Casual" players won't get stomped all the time and "elite" premades will get better fights. Everybody wins.

[Penril]

Yet the demands started with a prefabricated issue where players attempting to queue as a group were dodging and causing unbalanced scenarios. Holding the normal queue hostage by continuing this behavior created the leverage on Aza to implement the group queue. Now the hostage takers want everyone who disagrees with them to quit the game because it's how they want it now. I suppose they will convert to your authoritarian takeover of the imposed meta of the game, or leave. Or queue solo with lv12 toons to annoy you.

Newsflash: Playing as a group is incredibly fun for a lot of people. We never intented to "hold the queue hostage" by that behaviour; it was just a workaround so we could do SCs as a group (like LIVE used to be, you know). No one tried to create any leverage on Aza or any other dev.

Hostage takers? It's not like we pay a sub; in the end the devs will do whatever they think is best for the game, regardless of our opinion. I'm not sure what shocks me most: that a moderator uses these terms, or that a forum for a group PvP game has a moderator who doesn't understand how group PvP works.

[Vigfuss]

Everyone drops Q sometimes when there is good action in ORVR.

Seperating Qs will result in longer wait times, and probably only a few premades will Q as group, since a large fraction of the premades are really just friends playing random comps, which is not much different than PUGs.

Anti PM QQ is crazy in every game, just take a look at the rift forums and they even have a match making system in place.

[wargrimnir]

Yet the demands started with a prefabricated issue where players attempting to queue as a group were dodging and causing unbalanced scenarios. Holding the normal queue hostage by continuing this behavior created the leverage on Aza to implement the group queue. Now the hostage takers want everyone who disagrees with them to quit the game because it's how they want it now. I suppose they will convert to your authoritarian takeover of the imposed meta of the game, or leave. Or queue solo with lv12 toons to annoy you.

Newsflash: Playing as a group is incredibly fun for a lot of people. We never intented to "hold the queue hostage" by that behaviour; it was just a workaround so we could do SCs as a group (like LIVE used to be, you know). No one tried to create any leverage on Aza or any other dev.

Hostage takers? It's not like we pay a sub; in the end the devs will do whatever they think is best for the game, regardless of our opinion. I'm not sure what shocks me most: that a moderator uses these terms, or that a forum for a group PvP game has a moderator who doesn't understand how group PvP works.

Yet you continue with the personal attacks. I truly do not understand this avenue of discourse.

As a moderator I respond to reports, assist players in the tech forums, and monitor the forums for truly inappropriate behavior. My opinions on the direction and state of the game are just as valuable as any one else here.

Your workaround destroyed the functionality of the queue, which had been fine for months. It was intentional and deliberate. The demands in the previous thread were for a proper group queue, and the defense to distract from those actions was that solo players were using the in-game social tools to dodge when they saw members of a premade in a Scenario zone during a pop.

[Penril]

Personal attack? I haven't insulted you in any thread/post. If anything, you are the one insulting us by calling us "hostage takers".

If you take my "you don't understand how group PvP works" comment as a personal attack, well i'm sorry. But that's just what i get from most of your posts.

Anyway i already said all i needed to say on this, so i think im done on this thread. Have a nice day.

[wargrimnir]

Personal attack? I haven't insulted you in any thread/post. If anything, you are the one insulting us by calling us "hostage takers".

If you take my "you don't understand how group PvP works" comment as a personal attack, well i'm sorry. But that's just what i get from most of your posts.

Have a nice day.

My first post on this subject, the one where I say I'm bad and do bad things, and ignore my team, and die, and play badly. Etc. That's a type of player, that's a large base of your casual player. That's the player who probably isn't going to come to the forum and defend their interests. That's a player who is going to see themselves getting farmed on a regular basis because the environment is now ever more strongly skewed to competitive PvP.

Personally, I play a couple hours per week, but my background with WAR is extensive. I played for a very long time on the live servers, in a guild, doing competitive PvP, and rather successfully. My concern is for the general health of RoR, and that does include casual players who are taking a look at the game for the first time in several years. It's hard enough that we're running an alpha, do we really need to turn it into your highly competitive PvP wet dream? While scenarios are the most structured as far as getting evenly matched groups together, they're also the easiest to get immediate action and play for an hour. They hold a lot of potential for both casual and competitive play, and if the game is to continue to retain players it's important to retain those qualities.

You claim you don't want to play against pugs, but you have to because they're bad and need to "git gud". Casual players are a problem that need to be eliminated, or discouraged, so you have your PvP arenas filled with competitive play. You couldn't possibly have a separate queue for premades because it takes away your ability to have instant action, and everyone would queue solo anyway. Why do you think that's the case? Perhaps because tons of players like to drop into solo q and NOT play a highly organized PvP match every time?