Engineer AOE Dmg - Does it Impact?

[Kaldus]

Hi Everyone

I've started to level an engineer, lv 16 and I'm going to spec into the aoe tree.

I was looking into builds and comments about the engineer's aoe dmg and to sum up I'm reading this:

1. The engineer does fluff dmg, at the end of a WB it might top dmg meters but healers easily out heal the dmg.
2. Related to point 1 above, the dmg is constant rather than crit of BW/SW so your really not helping kill destro.

Having never played at high level with decent gear, are these two statements true or false? I'd appreciate any feedback.

[tefnaht]

Fluff damage is about middle tree, Napalm and Phosphorous Shells doesn't stuck and middle tree has no aoe filler button. You can deal good AoE damage in 3rd tree and on paper it's really good, but reality will be not so good in most cases.

BW/SW - same story, want to deal good AoE damage - be almost in close combat with guard. But only BW is welcom in non pure pug wb.

All bad reputation of engi and sw from common playstyle - pew-pew-pew from safe distance

[rorswar]

BW/SW - same story, want to deal good AoE damage - be almost in close combat with guard. But only BW is welcom in non pure pug wb.

All bad reputation of engi and sw from common playstyle - pew-pew-pew from safe distance

This is not true, and a good AOE SW can outdamage a lot of other classes and has a lot of burst. Furthermore, with Vengeance of Nagarythe and Barrage also AOE strips morale. However, an AOE SW is indeed reliant on a good guard to survive within 45ft range, and that guard has to be a Whispering Wind specced Sword Master to enable spamming of the Barrage ability.

[Glorian]

BW/SW - same story, want to deal good AoE damage - be almost in close combat with guard. But only BW is welcom in non pure pug wb.
All bad reputation of engi and sw from common playstyle - pew-pew-pew from safe distance

This is not true, and a good AOE SW can outdamage a lot of other classes and has a lot of burst. Furthermore, with Vengeance of Nagarythe and Barrage also AOE strips morale. However, an AOE SW is indeed reliant on a good guard to survive within 45ft range, and that guard has to be a Whispering Wind specced Sword Master to enable spamming of the Barrage ability.

Both true, but tefnath has a point that there are so many pew pew SWs and Engis that simply doesnt do enough damage that both classes are usually not seeked in a propper warband. Except you know the player, and know he can dps as it should be.

[tefnaht]

Both true, but tefnath has a point that there are so many pew pew SWs and Engis that simply doesnt do enough damage that both classes are usually not seeked in a propper warband. Except you know the player, and know he can dps as it should be.

Exactly, bad reputation, like DD AM.

This is not true, and a good AOE SW can outdamage a lot of other classes and has a lot of burst. Furthermore, with Vengeance of Nagarythe and Barrage also AOE strips morale. However, an AOE SW is indeed reliant on a good guard to survive within 45ft range, and that guard has to be a Whispering Wind specced Sword Master to enable spamming of the Barrage ability.

I know, I know... Engi also can make good AoE pressure at 45ft range, just engi less mobile with more control. Still not pug story.

[gersy]

engi is good and able to slot in most organized warband comps as a 1-off in the current meta. a lot of players seem to misconstrue fluff damage and what it means. in fact, engi (as well as dps shaman/am, magus and skirm SW) can do a lot more than fluff damage.

while it is true that these classes deal a lot of widespread damage, mostly through spreading dots to dozens of targets, it does not mean that all of their damage has to be that type of damage or that they are incapable of dealing meaningful burst damage which contributes to kills. players who either don't play the class, or don't know how to play the class, have a view that their damage is purely fluff damage. as it turns out there are ways to play these classes that don't involve mindless multi-dotting and channeling on cooldown to pad the scoreboard and make yourself look good.

sometimes, such as in the case of engi/magus, your abilities cannot stack with others of the same class. this presents a problem on paper, however this problem is almost entirely avoidable if you play around it. you can build in such a way (high main stat/ranged-magic power build with 15pt mastery) where you are able to overtake the "position" of other players of this class in terms of ground aoe and channel almost guaranteed. as well as not taking multiple of these builds in a warband (yes that sucks, but it is what it is). at the same time, you can also just place your ground aoe away from someone else's and can put your channel in an area where someone else's is not already or likely to appear.

for example if enemy is sitting in napalm, has both acid bomb and fragmentation grenade dot ticking on them and you go for m2/m3 and phos shells channel simultaneously your kill damage potential is quite substantial in a 3-5 second time frame. it can easily match that of any standard "melee dps" and has the benefit of having little to no chance to be interrupted as melee does. this is because you (should be) standing at a range where you won't be affected by aoe interrupts which are damning to the output of melees like slayer or white lion. additionally it's very good for kite based groups as it has mass dismount capability via napalm or quick phos tick cancel, especially in chokes, and tools like land mine and aoe stagger removal (sometimes i wonder if the average engi has ever even used shock grenade or know they have it).

tl;dr engi and most other rdps are perfectly viable in aoe oriented RvR warbands. they are more than capable of contributing meaningful damage, not just fluff, provided you utilize your kit correctly. many of them also come with unique utility and other benefits which make them desirable such as aforementioned engi kite potential and stagger removal, ambush of skirm sw, aoe blessing strip/disrupt debuff of dps shaman and other things like aoe resist debuffs which bolster allies' damage and contribute to building a well rounded, strong team composition.

[nocturnalguest]

Engi does have an impact.
However there are few very important things to consider for newcomers about engi:
- dmg rotations are very flexible and specific fight-dependant, its pretty hard to master, need alot of game knowledge and experience, you cant just aoe dot everything and be happy, this not gonna work;
- very high skill ceiling, i always advice to skip this class for newcomers, better learn game on something else first, you also have awesome CC&utility kit on engi that you need to learn how to use properly;
- was possible to do 10k/3 sec burst using only aoe abilities, dont quote me right away tho, ill look up for data, i have it saved somewhere;
- you will struggle with spots for PvP groups, engi is great class, but like was mentioned, people tend to take engi only if they know a player, also you have no IHD of your own, group comp cant be "meh, whatever";
- what one may call fluff the other will call pressure, if played well no engi damage goes to waste.

[Scragmuncher]

With good m3 timing engi can do pretty damn insane aoe dmg, but it basically requires m3.
Engi aoe can be great, but it kind of requires longer drawn out fights where your dot stacking and phos shell burst can really start to kick in, and these fights are not super common in the current meta.

Very fun class to play though.

[Ziorah]

Can someone please explain this to me? This isn't the first time I've seen “m1, m2, and m3.” What does that actually mean?

[Roids]

Engi is one of the best classes imo, like in pve, u go mid tree full aoe and have still like one of the best ST damage on bosses etc. Fresh 40 can punt 5k 3sec damage on Dummy with np at all. Dont 4get best AP pump and 15% more damage for all with flare, so u gimping urself a bit for the group. And Armor buff