Buff/Debuff stacking?

[Starx]

Been a while so I forget and maybe things have changed about how things stack over the years. Speaking specifically about stat buffs/debuffs, but also certain % buffs/debuffs such as reduced incoming healing etc.

From what I remember these work sort of as follows...

1.Potions/liniments,
2. Abilities+tactics (blessings, enchantments, hexes and ailments)
3. Morale

These being sort of their own classes that stack with each other but do not stack within themselves? For instance a BG could have an armor buff from a potion, his ability force of fury, and his morale 3 Armor of eternal servitude?

But for instance force of fury will not stack with the zealots HoT armor buff via the tactic? Nor will the BGs toughness buff or debuff stack with the chosen aura. In both cases only the strongest will apply?

Of course the biggest offender of ability stacking being knight chosen auras invalidating a ton of abilities from in party classes since they dont cost a gcd, cant be dispelled, last forever, are AoE, simotaenously a buff and a debuff, and usually are about the same power level as ones that do outside of their outgoing healdebuff one?

Morales same situation? Zealot Eye of sheerian and BG armor of eternal servitude will not stack together? And things like zealot claw and demo strike do not stack together?

Heal debuffs of the same type never stack with each other regardless of source, only outgoing+incoming work and two 50% of each of these would mean a 75% reduction in healing recieved? If the healer and the reciever are both outgoing and incoming debuffed.

That brings up a 4th class/source of buff/debuff being from gear, either procs on weapons or set bonuses.

Does a weapon or armor with an armor debuff proc stack with ability sources of armor debuffs? What about stat buffs, etc.

Anything else im missing? Am I wrong? Or how do these interact?

[nocturnalguest]

You better off read thru patch notes from a mark of like 2 years ago, as your knowledge is incredibly outdated or according to some questions of your entirely missing. Sadly there is no quick accurate answer for your questions as it requires a huge wall of text which i cant afford to post at the moment nor there is some wiki to link you to. Also short answers you may receive here can be completely made up and inaccurate, so beware.

You can study this as well if curious https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/, it contains all technical data of each ability, proc, tactic, whatever.

[Starx]

Thanks Ill try to find that patch, about the site what exactly am I looking for in the details of an ability to learn abouy how it interacts with other abilities?

[nebelwerfer]

It has become such a mess, bring back the old system where abilities/tactics/morales are different categories and stack pleassse

[Starx]

Still cant find the patch but I found how it use to work

[MAX (Ability / Potion) ]
+
[MAX (Morale)]
+
[SUM (Tactic)]
+
[SUM (Career Mechanic, Heaven's Blade, Daemonic Armor, Flak Jacket)]

So tactics stacked which made that zealot armor buff tactic hugely OP. Potions actually didnt stack with normal buffs (must have wasted a lot of gold there). But I wonder if weapon/armor stuff counted as "abilities". And why some abilities were classified seperately into career mechanics.

Anyone remember what year the patch came out that changed this? Would help me find it.

[Sinisterror]

Still cant find the patch but I found how it use to work

[MAX (Ability / Potion) ]
+
[MAX (Morale)]
+
[SUM (Tactic)]
+
[SUM (Career Mechanic, Heaven's Blade, Daemonic Armor, Flak Jacket)]

So tactics stacked which made that zealot armor buff tactic hugely OP. Potions actually didnt stack with normal buffs (must have wasted a lot of gold there). But I wonder if weapon/armor stuff counted as "abilities". And why some abilities were classified seperately into career mechanics.

Anyone remember what year the patch came out that changed this? Would help me find it.

Having the old 660 armour pot was not waste of money! Tactics like Rp/Zeal 1600 armour buff(which is nerfed to like 660...) was deemed to be too op, which they werent. 660 armour pot stacked with 1600 rp buff(and wpn procs like 800 armour stacked with these as well but if 4th armour buff from morale or career mechanic overwrotes the 800 armour buff proc)

RoR has changed armour values too much imo, and have added alot of armour penetrating tactics or abilities in game. Like 25% Armour pene tactic for Wl. Normal Armour debuff is 1600 and you have armour penetration WS stat on top of that. So why was Rp/Zeal tactic too op to stack with potion when 1 armour debuff is 1200-1600? Then 30-45% Armour pene on top of that on every physical dps class. I quess it stacks now because its 660 with the new 330 or whatever the number is on new armour potions. This is still 1k armour buff only from 2 sources, and again 1 armour debuff is 1600.

[nocturnalguest]

Thanks Ill try to find that patch, about the site what exactly am I looking for in the details of an ability to learn abouy how it interacts with other abilities?

Look into details with "i" button nearby, there are flags, they use parameters like "NonStacking" and stuff. Its full database, there is everything about what you want to know

[Starx]

Thanks so there are no longer buff/debuff clases like before and on live? just stacking and non stacking?

And an example im curious about. A lot of classes have armor debuffs and gear sets or weapons that have an armor debuff for instance bg:
https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/9329
And the proc:
https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/10385

Both have the non stacking flag. Which would mean they dont stack with each other? And would make it pretty useless set bonus?

[nocturnalguest]

Thanks so there are no longer buff/debuff clases like before and on live? just stacking and non stacking?

And an example im curious about. A lot of classes have armor debuffs and gear sets or weapons that have an armor debuff for instance bg:
https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/9329
And the proc:
https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/10385

Both have the non stacking flag. Which would mean they dont stack with each other? And would make it pretty useless set bonus?

Yes, obviously those dont stack, you see the tag yourself, why question?
Corrosion can be applied via aoe dmg while you compare it with ST armor debuff.

No offense, i dont put blame on you, but you are perfect example why devs HAVE to open combat code, make a big tech page on wiki of how things work so people may actually read somewhere. Like 90%+ of playerbase have close to 0 clue what is this game and its combat

I've said that like million times already but still, way too many changes done, players need info and wiki/other resources are lacking big times, only Dalen's database saves but it aint quite user friendly

[Starx]

Yes, obviously those dont stack, you see the tag yourself, why question?
Corrosion can be applied via aoe dmg while you compare it with ST armor debuff.

No offense, i dont put blame on you, but you are perfect example why devs HAVE to open combat code, make a big tech page on wiki of how things work so people may actually read somewhere. Like 90%+ of playerbase have close to 0 clue what is this game and its combat

I've said that like million times already but still, way too many changes done, players need info and wiki/other resources are lacking big times, only Dalen's database saves but it aint quite user friendly

I ask because I still havent gotten an answer to how many classes of buffs/debuffs there are like under the old system were there was 4. Under the old system abilities were "non-stacking" in terms of themselves or with potions, but stack with tactics, wording can be tricky.

So im assuming you are telling me there are only 2 types of buffs and debuffs now if its obvious? And stacking debuffs with always stack with everything including other "stacking" ones?

I cant even find a debuff or buff with the stacking tag, which also worries me because im seeing that on morales which means ive been wasting demo strike on my bg and its not even worth slotting anymore. Potions still have non stacking tag. I see tzeentches cordial is missing a non stacking tag, does this mean it stacks? Im assuming it doesnt stack with other cordials from other zealots? If there was another source of say a tactic which increased armor but wasnt from cordial and didnt have the non stacking tag would they stack?

And yes you are right I didnt think of corrosion as an AoE armor debuff. And ya no offense taken on my part, im just trying to relearn the game after being gone for 5 years and my bias is firmly on small scale so my brain was not thinking about aoe. I also probably sometimes come off as speaking from authority, and i will do that sometimes on purpose as I find people are more motivated to prove someone wrong rather than help them with an innocent question lol.

About wiki/info you are right too but all it takes is someone that understands the system like 30 minutes on the ror wiki to explain it.

Also just to be double sure...
https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/606
Morales no longer stack with anything? It has the non stacking flag. To me this would be a horrible change.

And to try and ask a question that might get me a good answer because I know this post is a giant mess lol. Is there a case in the current system where more than 2 debuffs/buffs of the same stat type stack with each other?

For instance in the old system you could stack Cordial(tactic) with an armor potion(potion), with eye of sheerian(morale), and lastly if in this case you were a magus your armor buff(career mechanic) would also stack. Bringing in a total of 4 different sources of an armor buff that all stack.

Looking at ability viewer all of these have the non stacking tag and that means these 4 buffs only the strongest will apply now?