WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[nat3s]

However that was not your argument, since your Def WL example has no place in a 6 man or WB and is useless there.

Just as a def WE has no place in a 6man or WB and is useless there. These are solo roaming specs, they sacrifice group play for solo capability. It's a trade off.

It would be like saying AOE WL should dominate every other dps in a WB because it was desgined to played in WB, obviously no you have to balance them( and they were also nerfed in the latest mdps patch for this reason, the logic need to apply to WE in her solo context)

And just as an AOE WL does not dominate every other dps in a WB, def WE does not dominate every other class in solo play. Not even close. Def WE is 4th / 5th in the current solo meta and I've provided killboard metrics including def WE duels against other meta roamers. RP is by far and away the most dominant solo roamer right now.

Oh not at all you're wrong, all i have been saying is that a stealth class has never been balanced for a Def Spec of this kind, this is true also outside of Return of reckoning, it's basic design when you apply class strength/weakness of the different archetypes classes.

And yet it is because it sacrifices group play and damage and can be seen from fights with the other meta roamers, isn't in the top 3. You know of the duel tournament a while back right? Where the top 3 were def dps AMs. You're barking up the wrong tree fella.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[Avernus]

A WL is actually great at opportunistic ganking incidentally whilst also being S tier in 6man and WB play.

WL is NOT an S tier for 6-man party. Why? He has too much stuff to cripple his combat potential:

1. Braindead pet.
2. You are forced to use this braindead pet to deal good ST damage.
3. No CC. It's for solo WL only.
4. The moment pet dies - so dies your dps and ability to pull your enemy (which isn't too reliable without pet speed tactic...).
5. No incoming healing debuff.
6. No wounds debuff.

Yes, WL is still good. But not THAT good.

[Fakeyou]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/268635539 alot time ago ( 6v6 vs WL+WH)

[Farrul]

And just as an AOE WL does not dominate every other dps in a WB, def WE does not dominate every other class in solo play. Not even close. Def WE is 4th / 5th in the current solo meta and I've provided killboard metrics including def WE duels against other meta roamers. RP is by far and away the most dominant solo roamer right now.

You are talking about 1v1/duel ranking, not solo, still you don't understand what the word solo means in RoR and that's why your argument falls.

In terms of solo roaming WE is #1 with WH. Everyone else including your WL are anecdotical at best since they dont have stealth and will be 1 player hanging in some corner at praag, these we's are everywhere on the other hand. They are polluting the lakes and making it a toxic high grief environment in-game. ( this will for sure scare away a portion of new players wanting to try it out realizing the server is full of overtuned stealthed gankers everywhere, not sure what the balanceteam was thinking here but it aint healthy)

But since you'r arguing with a tunnel-vision here and think they are okay because 1 RP can beat them 1vs1 you will never understand that.

WL AOE did dominate everyone else hence it got nerfed recently, if the there is any balance sense on this server the WE has to be brought under control as well at some point. Starting with realizing that 2x pounce is absurd on a stealth class that has a tank spec and then some proper balancing to overtuned abilities like Sacrifices Rewarded.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Are you attempting some sort of gaslighting now when your arguments failed? Or are you truly oblivious to what is going on in the game at the moment with these overtuned WE's? The statistics in the OP will problably get worse as time goes by since the devs made huge mistakes with the latest mdps patch and it shows in game, clearly for everyone to see, including those in denial like yourself( if you willing to open your eyes)

As i am typing this my lowbie toon got jumped by 3 WE's outside of the WC ( i survived them lol) but then another one poped out a bit further on the road.

[lemao]

A WL is actually great at opportunistic ganking incidentally whilst also being S tier in 6man and WB play.

WL is NOT an S tier for 6-man party. Why? He has too much stuff to cripple his combat potential:

1. Braindead pet.
2. You are forced to use this braindead pet to deal good ST damage.
3. No CC. It's for solo WL only.
4. The moment pet dies - so dies your dps and ability to pull your enemy (which isn't too reliable without pet speed tactic...).
5. No incoming healing debuff.
6. No wounds debuff.

Yes, WL is still good. But not THAT good.

WL is still top tier in 6 man.
Bind attack and follow for your pet
You do not need CC if you have 2 tanks in your group and potentially a WH in your party
Slot revenge and you only have 5 seconds downtime on your damage
No HD needed when you have a slayer/WH/DPS WP as your assist dps who can all provide it
Your kobts provides you the wounds debuff

[nat3s]

Nonsense here

Hang on a sec, is this you?

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... oOnly=true

82rr and no solo experience at all, despite solo Chosen being a beast, here's a known Chosen solo roamer that knows how to play the class:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... oOnly=true

879 solo kills, 33 solo deaths.

Yeah you don't know what you're talking about.

[PROsiak]

Hang on a sec, is this you?

For all i care this dude might not even own a warhammer account. You still refuse to acknowledge the arguments thrown at you and from the last couple of pages of this thread that i've read through it seems your only counterargument keeps being WE losing 1v1 in some matchups like RP or WL.
WE can have losing matchup and still be overtuned, one does not exclude the other. If u can't see past that then this discussion serves no purpose.

[Sinisterror]

Random thought, but Bleeding Edge/Blessed Blade should be modified to work this way; 1 frenzy/accusation gives 15% Armour Penetration for 1.5s . 2 Finisher 30% Armour pene for 3s. 3-5 Finishers 45% Armour Pene for 4.5seconds. 4-5 finishers 5sec to 5.5sec and 50% Armour penetration. Also 5 FInishers would give extra 15% Crit dmg boost for the 5.5s as well.

Change frenzied mayhem back to 1 frenzy giving 3% Crit up to 15% Crit with 5 finishers. Give Range back to Ruthless assault+30ft frenzy building Corpo dmg direct hit/5s corpo dot. Remove the aoe finisher from welf to get this. Slice back to target having old dmg but none targets -30% dmg. Change SS back to giving 10-50% AA dmg for 10seconds and can be used from front.

[Avernus]

WL is still top tier in 6 man.
1. Bind attack and follow for your pet
2. You do not need CC if you have 2 tanks in your group and potentially a WH in your party
3. Slot revenge and you only have 5 seconds downtime on your damage
4. No HD needed when you have a slayer/WH/DPS WP as your assist dps who can all provide it
5. Your kobts provides you the wounds debuff

1. You can play without doing that?
2. You are forced to rely on others to do your job good - and its not the mark of an S tier class.
3. 6 seconds. Does that mean that WL is broken enough to actually be an S tier while playing with 3 tactics only? No.
4. If the only thing your team has is 1 HD with 10 sec cd - it's not reliable.
5. So, who's the S tier class then - KotBS or WL?

[lemao]

WL is still top tier in 6 man.
1. Bind attack and follow for your pet
2. You do not need CC if you have 2 tanks in your group and potentially a WH in your party
3. Slot revenge and you only have 5 seconds downtime on your damage
4. No HD needed when you have a slayer/WH/DPS WP as your assist dps who can all provide it
5. Your kobts provides you the wounds debuff

1. You can play without doing that?
2. You are forced to rely on others to do your job good - and its not the mark of an S tier class.
3. 6 seconds. Does that mean that WL is broken enough to actually be an S tier while playing with 3 tactics only? No.
4. If the only thing your team has is 1 HD with 10 sec cd - it's not reliable.
5. So, who's the S tier class then - KotBS or WL?

If you have a decent team with decent tanks CC should never be an issue ?? Mara dps dok and dps wp are also S tier in 6 man , they do not have much cc aswell ?
Idk maybe you play with bots
What 3 tactics, revenge counts as a tactic and if your pet dies the dmg increase you gain acually tops the overall dmg you gain from crit dmg