[IronBreaker] Grumble An’ Mutter

[Illuminati]

That 3 sec burst info from doll not enough to indicate spikes of dmg?

The problem is the aoe leak to the others? (not sure if it captures that) Can probably use the other ones that are underground near the old entrance to BE to be sure.

Not sure where the Order dummies are that are not near other dummies.

[nocturnalguest]

A better thought experiment would be to determine the 'burst window' available within a 20 second window for each tank since it would consider group play and small game play viability of tank dps w/ utilities in the rotation (punts, kds, challenges, etc.).

No, its not necessary, what really matters is how much of assist dmg you can fit into narrow "go" window on KD'ed target without being under detaunt, rest of dmg you do on a tank is irrelevant. 3 second burst is showing this almost ideally (real combat window is more narrow, 3-5 seconds of fly time from punt of which first second is actually still guard range, depends on a punt direction, what you KD, e.g. slayer with SoS etc still tho we have nothing better as indicator).

Using most cheese extreme values is most correct approach i believe because it allows to do a comparison clearly and most crucial no class falls out. With coldstart IB/BG (BG in much lesser degree as no skill dmg is tied into mechanics but still) are put into way too unreal conditions, in real fight with grudge on parry you ramp up very fast but without random hits + guard no hate/grudge = no damage.

Because tank play is pretty complex and abilities are situational, they are response on whats happening, i dont think any real test is valuable. MA will control shotcallings, not you. What MA says, you execute. Following what MA calls is more important then launching your very best dmg rotation.

Ok, ill better go prepare for tests

P.S. oh, btw, i dont have BiS SM, so if anyone fancy most extreme result will be interesting too

[nocturnalguest]

We cooperate with Ruin and did some brief tests. We had 15/0/9 on kotbs, buffed it was overcapped str, 625 WS and 28% crit, 33.2% armor penetration and tons of melee power from vic+warlord+bloodlord weapon. Kotbs had +150 str, +10 crit, +25%AA and parry buff from IB. Obviously bloodlord weapon.
We tried with IB armor debuff and without it, kotbs applied m1 armor debuff always. We tried with 3 auras from conquest and with -toughness -resists. It was very tricky to keep both taunt and runefang buffs up, but we managed. Tactics on kotbs: biting blade (just to squize some additional dmg into 3 sec timeframe), FO, runefang, overpowering swing
Rotation was sequenced into blazing x2 - arcing swing - staggering - blazing x3 - taunt - vicious - shinning blade (best dmg output to press it before MF) - myrmidia canceled with precious strike. Construct obviously either double armor debuffed or at least m1'ed.
We didnt specifically fish for crits so most important question was how much we can fit into 3 seconds. Turns out not so much.

We managed to somewhat reliably do 6-6.4k within 3 seconds (had 6.2 with 1 armor debuff max) on not failed tries and both agree that if you spend time to fish for crits it can maybe reach ~8k as absolute maximum.

Sadly got my screenshots all over the place, so ill afterwards replace it with 10k IB one, but just for the sake of proving here you go with what IB does in same conditions



Brief conclusions:
1. Kotbs has pretty nice sustain while trying to burst, we struggled many times because construct died too fast for us to proc/apply everything. When you focus on burst as IB construct dies on burst rotation but general time is higher, kotbs easily kills it within 17 seconds while fully focused to actually burst, not sustain. Also IB test was a bit different with going in and out to be sure taunt stays, kotbs moved either side ways or behind construct with procs up so dummy stops hitting.
2. IB just mechanically is absolutely unmatched in terms of 3 second burst. I believe no other tank class can fit so much damage into 3 seconds timeframe.
3. 5.3k within 1 second (!!!) on IB, its just nuts. I've got higher number somewhere, once i merge file directories ill find those test (they were done right after change that made pots stack with buffs so str cap become easily reachable). Highest 1 second burst we got on kotbs was 3.6k
4. double armor debuff, resists debuff or whatever. it just doesnt go further then ~6.5k on kotbs reliably.
5. IB on SS was 15/0/9 so its not super unrealistic vs. what we ran on kotbs. In case IB goes 13/5/5 which is a working spec it will surely outburst any playable kotbs offensive spec (all of which are just pure pugging unlike IBs).

We now back into drawing board to see if kotbs can do more, but at the moment im out of ideas what can be done to increase the number for kotbs.

[ince]

Derailed as usual, just wanna know...
Still...
Is it coming back or not?

[Wdova]

We cooperate with Ruin and did some brief tests. We had 15/0/9 on kotbs, buffed it was overcapped str, 625 WS and 28% crit, 33.2% armor penetration and tons of melee power from vic+warlord+bloodlord weapon. Kotbs had +150 str, +10 crit, +25%AA and parry buff from IB. Obviously bloodlord weapon.
We tried with IB armor debuff and without it, kotbs applied m1 armor debuff always. We tried with 3 auras from conquest and with -toughness -resists. It was very tricky to keep both taunt and runefang buffs up, but we managed. Tactics on kotbs: biting blade (just to squize some additional dmg into 3 sec timeframe), FO, runefang, overpowering swing
Rotation was sequenced into blazing x2 - arcing swing - staggering - blazing x3 - taunt - vicious - shinning blade (best dmg output to press it before MF) - myrmidia canceled with precious strike. Construct obviously either double armor debuffed or at least m1'ed.
We didnt specifically fish for crits so most important question was how much we can fit into 3 seconds. Turns out not so much.

We managed to somewhat reliably do 6-6.4k within 3 seconds (had 6.2 with 1 armor debuff max) on not failed tries and both agree that if you spend time to fish for crits it can maybe reach ~8k as absolute maximum.

Sadly got my screenshots all over the place, so ill afterwards replace it with 10k IB one, but just for the sake of proving here you go with what IB does in same conditions



Brief conclusions:
1. Kotbs has pretty nice sustain while trying to burst, we struggled many times because construct died too fast for us to proc/apply everything. When you focus on burst as IB construct dies on burst rotation but general time is higher, kotbs easily kills it within 17 seconds while fully focused to actually burst, not sustain. Also IB test was a bit different with going in and out to be sure taunt stays, kotbs moved either side ways or behind construct with procs up so dummy stops hitting.
2. IB just mechanically is absolutely unmatched in terms of 3 second burst. I believe no other tank class can fit so much damage into 3 seconds timeframe.
3. 5.3k within 1 second (!!!) on IB, its just nuts. I've got higher number somewhere, once i merge file directories ill find those test (they were done right after change that made pots stack with buffs so str cap become easily reachable). Highest 1 second burst we got on kotbs was 3.6k
4. double armor debuff, resists debuff or whatever. it just doesnt go further then ~6.5k on kotbs reliably.
5. IB on SS was 15/0/9 so its not super unrealistic vs. what we ran on kotbs. In case IB goes 13/5/5 which is a working spec it will surely outburst any playable kotbs offensive spec (all of which are just pure pugging unlike IBs).

We now back into drawing board to see if kotbs can do more, but at the moment im out of ideas what can be done to increase the number for kotbs.

Have you count the time IB has to build the grudge? IB´s highest damage potential is when he backup with buffs and sits on 100 grudges.

[nocturnalguest]

Have you count the time IB has to build the grudge? IB´s highest damage potential is when he backup with buffs and sits on 100 grudges.

Yes, of course, like i described execution for IB was different with going in and out so this time is included, thats why it has 18 seconds with much higher dmg done (vs ~17 seconds on kotbs).

IB burst was done under completely same conditions, outside buffs from another IB (str, crit, parry, bog), WS selfbuff up, whole rotation was executed at 100 grudge.

Derailed as usual, just wanna know...
Still...
Is it coming back or not?

Two weeks ™