Slayer feels too weak

[eigner93]

I think it is C ppl at RR80 hava problems with positioning

Not sure how rr80 population after a giant melee rework has anything to do with Slayer being weak. Obviously everyone is trying out these reworks, players are returning to check their dusted characters. But, thanks for pointing out that slayer is still the least played among high rr melees on Order.

[Bozzax]

It used to be the goto class of RR80 order, x2 Slayer was a thing

[Bozzax]

I'd argue against using population statistics to try and correlate them with class power/viability.

Like, here's the Destro equivalent graph over the same time period:


Here Choppa comes ahead of Mara in popularity despite having very similar toolkit and issues as Slayer.
Mara is also favored way less despite (imo) being exceptionally suited to the current META.

In the end I think population percentages are mainly driven by class looks and less so by class identity.

Destruction mdps are well irrelevant when you compare order mdps classes

[reyaloran]

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that Slayer (and I'd imagine Choppa too) feels better than before in warband setting.
Yes, you lost some survivability in Yellow, but that pales in comparison to the sheer utility, and QoL things Slayer gained.

I will have to disagree with the choppa side of that statement. We did not gain any utility for wb play and actually lost one of our engage tools with stopin being moved to berserk only. I think the class still does fine with proper support but overall it was a net nerf to wb choppa in particular.

[leftayparxoun]

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that Slayer (and I'd imagine Choppa too) feels better than before in warband setting.
Yes, you lost some survivability in Yellow, but that pales in comparison to the sheer utility, and QoL things Slayer gained.

I will have to disagree with the choppa side of that statement. We did not gain any utility for wb play and actually lost one of our engage tools with stopin being moved to berserk only. I think the class still does fine with proper support but overall it was a net nerf to wb choppa in particular.

Furious Stomping was overperforming a bit imo, and it being moved to Red only is fine as a "nerf" considering you can hit Red faster than ever now (especially in Permared builds). Said builds also have access to AOE snare for basically no cost, while the rest of the builds may also use it at the cost of going back to Yellow for 2 GCDs. That was the utility I was talking about. Less valuable on Destro, for sure, but still a nice option.

Also pretty sure the WS party buff is bound to see more play if I'm guessing correctly that they will be nerfing the 4pc Triumphant procs in the upcoming months.

[ravezaar]

Both Choppa and Slayer dropped compared to the other Mdps in this rework, iam just suprised by how much. Feels like even our Buffs the few we got and not even close to the buffs that say WE/WH got.

And the nerfs , well SL/Choppa won that hands down. But as many stated above Idk if Devs care or listen to ppl opinions (most I think they ignore and maybe should) I just really wish we got a response, so we can move on.

Tnx

[eigner93]

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that Slayer (and I'd imagine Choppa too) feels better than before in warband setting.
Yes, you lost some survivability in Yellow, but that pales in comparison to the sheer utility, and QoL things Slayer gained.

I feel like the majority of the complaints come from people who either:
a) play solo or not in parties/warbands where they get the proper support the class needs to function
b) have not built their character correctly (in masteries, tactics and/or gear), and/or
c) Are new or struggle with their positioning

After playing with it, I can say that the class feels better than ever (after the justified nerf to Rampage in 2024) in warband setting.

Now, for the arguments regarding small scale/solo performance, I have nothing to say there since that's not something I have tested since the rework so I can't comment on it. However, I feel like the reasoning behind the Yellow change is solid and therefore if the "rewards" for those builds are not outweighing the "risks", then it should be the "rewards" that get increased and not the "risks" that are reduced.

Many people, including myself said that some of the changes are decent and the flow of combat feels nicer on slayer, but after testing it in all aspects of the game our damage is roughly the same while our survivability was reduced again. Utility? The only good change is Fierceness.
1. The yellow change roughly reduces the armor of a Bis Slayer by 750. And resistances 120-150 for the same damage as we always did. The same damage other melee classes do without reducing their armor. So like you said the rewards should be increased atleast. Or revert this change. Whats the point of yellow debuff anyway if BLOB slayers can access red in a few seconds?
2. Rampage back on 100% doesnt make so much difference as it cannot exceed 50% of the targets defensives, however it helps against tanks mostly. Rampage being put back on GCD was a negative QoL change.
3. Retribution second part in Red only, however we can go into red almost instantly by speccing Power Through.
4. Invigorating Release and honor restored is great, however we would have to give up an other 2 tactic slots for these. Also Honor restored cant be used with Power Through.
5. Even the odds good, but 1 minute cd is too long. Should be 40 sec like Fierceness.

[leftayparxoun]

Both Choppa and Slayer dropped compared to the other Mdps in this rework, iam just suprised by how much. Feels like even our Buffs the few we got and not even close to the buffs that say WE/WH got.

That comparison is a bit unfair since WE and WH pretty much became warband-viable for the average player overnight. The proper comparison is to see how the Choppa/Slayer population fares compared to the standard mdps; Mara and WL.



We see here that the ratio of Slayers to WLs was 0.67 over the last 3 months and since the patch has risen up to 0.85.
The ratio of Choppas to Maras seems to have stayed the same (0.89) when examining both periods.

And the nerfs , well SL/Choppa won that hands down. But as many stated above Idk if Devs care or listen to ppl opinions (most I think they ignore and maybe should) I just really wish we got a response, so we can move on.

When examining the classes in warband setting

• WE and WH became truly viable by having their AOE damage and utility increased with the addition of another AOE finisher.

• Mara lost some of his burst in exchange for utility and WL lost some of his burst and sustained damage (because it was significantly overperforming).

• Choppa and Slayer lost some survivability but gained faster buildup to burst (for Choppa depends on the build) and easier access to certain utility tools. Their damage stayed pretty much the same.

I'm not sure how one can take a look at the changes on WL (and Mara to a certain extent) and come out with the conclusion that Choppa/Slayer came out the worst from the mdps patch.

[ravezaar]

"I'm not sure how one can take a look at the changes on WL (and Mara to a certain extent) and come out with the conclusion that Choppa/Slayer came out the worst from the mdps patch.

Choppa and Slayer lost some survivability but gained faster buildup to burst (for Choppa depends on the build) and easier access to certain utility tools. Their damage stayed pretty much the same."

You forgot to mention when u talked about build up time is faster that the main ST skills for Slayer got nerfed in dmg to main Skill like Pulverizing Strike and Spine Crusher.

We got abit of xtra dmg to Deathblow but its a long CD skill for 2H only use wich isnt for WBs anyway so thats out. And the Cleft DoT got buffed. I do agree some rage exhaust changes are intresting making it an option for Power Through but tbh all that dosent matter cause it just dont compensate for the xtra dmg intake. SL/Choppa lost this rework, I stand by that

[leftayparxoun]

You forgot to mention when u talked about build up time is faster that the main ST skills for Slayer got nerfed in dmg to main Skill like Pulverizing Strike and Spine Crusher.

We got abit of xtra dmg to Deathblow but its a long CD skill for 2H only use wich isnt for WBs anyway so thats out. And the Cleft DoT got buffed. I do agree some rage exhaust changes are intresting making it an option for Power Through but tbh all that dosent matter cause it just dont compensate for the xtra dmg intake. SL/Choppa lost this rework, I stand by that

None of those skills you mentioned are relevant in warband builds.
Considering that it's nearly mandatory to have Power Through builds for AOE now, Precarious Assault is your main ST finisher (that is also spammable).