Slayer feels too weak

[eigner93]

Problem with these classes is that in order to do as much damage as other classes we have to became the squishiest classes in the game on the frontline. Especially slayer because choppa atleast has a big wounds tactic and an extra cc.

There is absolutely no place for wounds tactics.
You have others that you need to put on.
What extra CC? You're not talking about GTDC free immun, are you?

I am not saying that Choppa has tons of survivability. Of course not, they are horrible, but atleast they have the option to slot a Wound tactic if they want some extra tankiness. Many choppas use them in certain situations, especially after the patch .Also I am not saying GTDC is the best cc ever invented in this game, but its still a cc. A DPS in the air is not dpsing you. Also i noticed, that in every Post regarding the slayer, you are preaching, how good is the slayer now, talking some nonsense about the changes, but you havent touched your slayer since October, and with your choppa you only played scs since the patch, so i am assuming you have not tested the changes properly on your choppa either in all aspects of the game.

[fatelvis]

How about furious grants root, knockback+slow immunity and berserk root, kb, slow and kd immunity?
This way you eat more damage but might be able to manuever around it. Though stealthers still get you way low when stunning right out of stealth.
Also I don't like the detaunt drops all rage mechanic. I would rather like to keep the resource and just half the damage of non prioritized targets. If I want to get back to green I got plenty of skills to do so.

[wonshot]

After the patch our little group have been testing the changes to the mdps.
Lately ive been trying the slayer, and been trying tactics and different builds.

After the healer patch and the changes I saw being done to the Shammy/AM class mechanic, I was kinda expecting Choppa/Slayer to get some changes to Rage-related tactics and this excited me. What I had hoped for was that there would both be a build and playstyle for those that dont want to balance their rage and play the normal Red Rage build(s) but at the same time the masteries and tactics would allow for a up-and-down build. Which I think I found with Windswing build. On paper this one seemed pretty strong, 25% armor pen, 75%modifier and spamable with Whispering wind from SM.

Yesterday we had several fights against a 2-2-2 warband where they all balled up in a deathball, and the fights lasted 2-3mins and we fought them 3 times total in KV. Under these circumstances I feel like I got the best conditions for my Wind swing build but still my guild dpspartner WL sitll keeps up for what its worth:
Slayling + Moonelf: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 936ff9421a
Slayer abilities killdmg: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ge/1887493
WL abilities killdmg: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ge/1692844
Cheeseboard stats from 3 hours eu primetime playing (WL arrived late) https://imgur.com/a/K64vb17

Basicly we both dump aoe, and then I ask him with the resets on his new execute to finish lowtargets after we have dumped a stack low thats our strategy on the patchlevel. But the main take away I did, was that under a pretty perfect conditioned fight and me playing a more fragile class, a more mechanical build which is much more ap hungry, we are about even in damage still despite the advantages of the WL in utility and armor.

My conclusion, I like the builds of standard Accuracy slayer and Wild Swing. I like the idea of having class mechanical tactic options to try and get the higher modifier, I asked my healers how the slayer damage intake was and the answer was "its higher for sure but its kinda managable" (we are not frontlining the big blob vs blob fights or wb vs wb fights we take more flanks to reduce our intake)
I think 12% penalty in Yellow makes more sense overall, and then maybe some more damage related adjustments for the slayer so this class atleast is the more aggressive choice over WL which will still remain meta with medium armor, mobility advantage, aoe interrupt, now a singletarget finisher with reset on kill )i only really see LMN getting most use out of this and us) and acces to a morale drop in one class.

A slight change that would help the Windswing build would be to put the 25%amorpen in middle tree from 7 middle tree to 3 middletree, so you could run leftree healdebuff, middletree armor pen, right tree ID, shattered limbs. Right now unable to pick up the healdebuff in left made it just pure aoe build which maybe does make sense for Wildswing. It was a fun build to play, but for performance players might aswel stay on WLs imho

[lumpi33]

There are a few things about Slayers/Choppas that don't make sense to me.

1. AOE
They should be the melee class with the highest and best AOE melee damage. That is currently not the case. All mdps classes do about the same aoe damage and if I look at the morales then why are they not having a AOE damage moral like the other mdps. Their M2 options are garbage. Even WEs/WHs have one which is kind of wrong. Why?

The melee damage output has been consolidated over all classes and I think that is fine because Slayer/Choppa damage would be too high otherwise BUT the AOE damage should be THE domain of them and here their damage should be clearly higher. Giving WEs/WHs AOE damage is just wrong. It should be their downside to not have that with all the tools they have.

2. Toolkit
They should be the hardest to stop melees in their rage. That is currently not the case. They are easier to hold off targets than WLs/Maras with their pulls and WEs/WHs which can catapult themselves into a direction with self knockback stagger. Why?

Bottom line: Slayer/Choppa toolkit is pretty weak compared to the other options. e.g. the other mdps doing a lot better vs kiting ranged dps with pulls or throwing weapon that snares.

A lot of classes have some kind of "cool trick" that makes the class fun to play. Like pull or punt or whatever. Im missing that on especially Slayers. I think the rage mechanic is missing additional bonuses beside the damage bonus. Like resisting snares/stuns/kds/kbs/pulls with a certain chance the higher the rage or a weapon throw that is snaring or stunning enemies.

3. Survivability
They are so incredible weak without guard and heals that it is almost ridiculous. Everything hits so brutally hard that playing without guard is very painful and playing solo is basically no option. Even when you fight your own mechanic and stay out of red. They are by far the weakest solo class. Why?

You tried to make WEs/WHs more competitive in warband/group play with the last patch while they were actually pretty fine for a class that is THE solo class BUT you don't allow Slayers/Choppas to run without guard or solo when there is no group available? Weird.

That's my take on the current state of the Slayer/Choppa

[Nelly74]

Over the course of many threads, I’ve read a huge number of good ideas, excellent critiques, and a lot of genuinely relevant feedback regarding the Slayer. This class has been the subject of countless discussions on the forum for several years now, and yet, despite the massive amount of information and ideas provided by the community, the Slayer is in an increasingly miserable state.
I can only conclude that the team in charge of balance simply doesn’t care. No responses, no discussion, no explanations. In short, everyone is free to draw their own conclusions, but everything points to the fact that even the most constructive feedback, the most relevant reports, and the brightest ideas will have absolutely no impact

[normanis]

After the patch our little group have been testing the changes to the mdps.
Lately ive been trying the slayer, and been trying tactics and different builds.

After the healer patch and the changes I saw being done to the Shammy/AM class mechanic, I was kinda expecting Choppa/Slayer to get some changes to Rage-related tactics and this excited me. What I had hoped for was that there would both be a build and playstyle for those that dont want to balance their rage and play the normal Red Rage build(s) but at the same time the masteries and tactics would allow for a up-and-down build. Which I think I found with Windswing build. On paper this one seemed pretty strong, 25% armor pen, 75%modifier and spamable with Whispering wind from SM.

Yesterday we had several fights against a 2-2-2 warband where they all balled up in a deathball, and the fights lasted 2-3mins and we fought them 3 times total in KV. Under these circumstances I feel like I got the best conditions for my Wind swing build but still my guild dpspartner WL sitll keeps up for what its worth:
Slayling + Moonelf: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 936ff9421a
Slayer abilities killdmg: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ge/1887493
WL abilities killdmg: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ge/1692844
Cheeseboard stats from 3 hours eu primetime playing (WL arrived late) https://imgur.com/a/K64vb17

Basicly we both dump aoe, and then I ask him with the resets on his new execute to finish lowtargets after we have dumped a stack low thats our strategy on the patchlevel. But the main take away I did, was that under a pretty perfect conditioned fight and me playing a more fragile class, a more mechanical build which is much more ap hungry, we are about even in damage still despite the advantages of the WL in utility and armor.

My conclusion, I like the builds of standard Accuracy slayer and Wild Swing. I like the idea of having class mechanical tactic options to try and get the higher modifier, I asked my healers how the slayer damage intake was and the answer was "its higher for sure but its kinda managable" (we are not frontlining the big blob vs blob fights or wb vs wb fights we take more flanks to reduce our intake)
I think 12% penalty in Yellow makes more sense overall, and then maybe some more damage related adjustments for the slayer so this class atleast is the more aggressive choice over WL which will still remain meta with medium armor, mobility advantage, aoe interrupt, now a singletarget finisher with reset on kill )i only really see LMN getting most use out of this and us) and acces to a morale drop in one class.

A slight change that would help the Windswing build would be to put the 25%amorpen in middle tree from 7 middle tree to 3 middletree, so you could run leftree healdebuff, middletree armor pen, right tree ID, shattered limbs. Right now unable to pick up the healdebuff in left made it just pure aoe build which maybe does make sense for Wildswing. It was a fun build to play, but for performance players might aswel stay on WLs imho

if moonelf would be same total kills as slayer 186vs230, wl would be outdamage u. its just mean wl>sl still after wl nerf (in bis gear moonelf would rampage u in damage)

[eigner93]

After the patch our little group have been testing the changes to the mdps.
Lately ive been trying the slayer, and been trying tactics and different builds.

After the healer patch and the changes I saw being done to the Shammy/AM class mechanic, I was kinda expecting Choppa/Slayer to get some changes to Rage-related tactics and this excited me. What I had hoped for was that there would both be a build and playstyle for those that dont want to balance their rage and play the normal Red Rage build(s) but at the same time the masteries and tactics would allow for a up-and-down build. Which I think I found with Windswing build. On paper this one seemed pretty strong, 25% armor pen, 75%modifier and spamable with Whispering wind from SM.

Yesterday we had several fights against a 2-2-2 warband where they all balled up in a deathball, and the fights lasted 2-3mins and we fought them 3 times total in KV. Under these circumstances I feel like I got the best conditions for my Wind swing build but still my guild dpspartner WL sitll keeps up for what its worth:
Slayling + Moonelf: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 936ff9421a
Slayer abilities killdmg: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ge/1887493
WL abilities killdmg: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ge/1692844
Cheeseboard stats from 3 hours eu primetime playing (WL arrived late) https://imgur.com/a/K64vb17

Basicly we both dump aoe, and then I ask him with the resets on his new execute to finish lowtargets after we have dumped a stack low thats our strategy on the patchlevel. But the main take away I did, was that under a pretty perfect conditioned fight and me playing a more fragile class, a more mechanical build which is much more ap hungry, we are about even in damage still despite the advantages of the WL in utility and armor.

My conclusion, I like the builds of standard Accuracy slayer and Wild Swing. I like the idea of having class mechanical tactic options to try and get the higher modifier, I asked my healers how the slayer damage intake was and the answer was "its higher for sure but its kinda managable" (we are not frontlining the big blob vs blob fights or wb vs wb fights we take more flanks to reduce our intake)
I think 12% penalty in Yellow makes more sense overall, and then maybe some more damage related adjustments for the slayer so this class atleast is the more aggressive choice over WL which will still remain meta with medium armor, mobility advantage, aoe interrupt, now a singletarget finisher with reset on kill )i only really see LMN getting most use out of this and us) and acces to a morale drop in one class.

A slight change that would help the Windswing build would be to put the 25%amorpen in middle tree from 7 middle tree to 3 middletree, so you could run leftree healdebuff, middletree armor pen, right tree ID, shattered limbs. Right now unable to pick up the healdebuff in left made it just pure aoe build which maybe does make sense for Wildswing. It was a fun build to play, but for performance players might aswel stay on WLs imho

if moonelf would be same total kills as slayer 186vs230, wl would be outdamage u. its just mean wl>sl still after wl nerf (in bis gear moonelf would rampage u in damage)

People can test as much as they want, but even after 2 weeks of playing it became evident that WL>SL still after the patch. There are decent changes in there, but Devs need to realise the mistakes they made and listen to people. It feels like slayer is in this downward spiral for years now. And every time they say there is an upcoming rework or change towards the class things just become worse. I start to wonder, when they will take our Shatter Limbs away.

[leftayparxoun]

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that Slayer (and I'd imagine Choppa too) feels better than before in warband setting.
Yes, you lost some survivability in Yellow, but that pales in comparison to the sheer utility, and QoL things Slayer gained.

I feel like the majority of the complaints come from people who either:
a) play solo or not in parties/warbands where they get the proper support the class needs to function
b) have not built their character correctly (in masteries, tactics and/or gear), and/or
c) Are new or struggle with their positioning

After playing with it, I can say that the class feels better than ever (after the justified nerf to Rampage in 2024) in warband setting.

Now, for the arguments regarding small scale/solo performance, I have nothing to say there since that's not something I have tested since the rework so I can't comment on it. However, I feel like the reasoning behind the Yellow change is solid and therefore if the "rewards" for those builds are not outweighing the "risks", then it should be the "rewards" that get increased and not the "risks" that are reduced.

[Bozzax]

I think it is C ppl at RR80 hava problems with positioning

[leftayparxoun]

I'd argue against using population statistics to try and correlate them with class power/viability.

Like, here's the Destro equivalent graph over the same time period:


Here Choppa comes ahead of Mara in popularity despite having very similar toolkit and issues as Slayer.
Mara is also favored way less despite (imo) being exceptionally suited to the current META.

In the end I think population percentages are mainly driven by class looks and less so by class identity.