A reflection on stealth classes

[nat3s]

I think WE/WH need a buff tbh. I play exclusively solo roaming setups, regen magus, regen chosen, zealot, AM and sham.

I find WE/WH to be free renown in 1v1 scenarios. If you compare a def WE to your regular glass cannon setup most people seem to embrace in rvr, then that's a bit disingenuous. If you compare like-for-like solo built chars, WH/WE are not that oppressive.

Personally I'd be happy for WH/WE to get perma stealth, like DAOC days.

Interesting how you list 4 destro top tier toons and 1 order and no surprise the AM(THE best order toon lol) to justify your point, well as it is neither of those destro toons has to fight the Def WE, and yes most of them destroys the WH 1vs1 since the WH isn't on par with Def WE and has been nerfed too much.

But i do agree otherwise, WH/None Def WE deserves to be buffed, none def WE is a free kill and so is WH for OP abominations like regen Magus.

P.S. Perma stealth is a terrible idea( look at WoW Rogue as reference) but i do think the stealth should be increased to before nerf values, it just drains AP way too fast imho.

Agree about buffing WH and non def WE.

Feels like this may be more of a fragile ego issue? Does dying frustrate you by any chance? You should run solo on your chars for a bit to get a feel for it, once you appreciate there's no loss in dying a few times, you'll find you adjust your build and start getting 90%+ winrates too in duels. It's all about the build for 1v1s, def WE will stomp any straight dps build e.g. your typical newb setup in warlord / sov / triumphants i.e. those that see "oooo high crit chance must be good" type of newbro mentality. But you need to compare apples to apples, a similarly setup solo WL, kotbs, AM, RP etc.

Currently, for me, the solo meta tier list is:

AM, WL, RP, Zealot, Magus, WE

I'd say AM is #1 as it has the best cleanse + AP drain doesn't drop your detaunt so can be abused to cheese wins, including against def WEs (although need to be careful of AP sustain WEs).

[Krima]

Remove vanish, give more DPS. ATM dps of WE as far as I know is CRAP!!!

Bring back glass canon, powerful single target builds.

[Incertname]

Remove vanish, give more DPS. ATM dps of WE as far as I know is CRAP!!!

Bring back glass canon, powerful single target builds.

^ THIS! If WE/WH had something like a loner tactic, like remove stealth but increas dmg, I'd be happy

[M0rw47h]

Remove vanish, give more DPS. ATM dps of WE as far as I know is CRAP!!!

Bring back glass canon, powerful single target builds.

^ THIS! If WE/WH had something like a loner tactic, like remove stealth but increas dmg, I'd be happy

I think most of us would be happy, including non-WE/WH players

[Farrul]

Agree about buffing WH and non def WE.

Feels like this may be more of a fragile ego issue? Does dying frustrate you by any chance? You should run solo on your chars for a bit to get a feel for it, once you appreciate there's no loss in dying a few times, you'll find you adjust your build and start getting 90%+ winrates too in duels. It's all about the build for 1v1s, def WE will stomp any straight dps build e.g. your typical newb setup in warlord / sov / triumphants i.e. those that see "oooo high crit chance must be good" type of newbro mentality. But you need to compare apples to apples, a similarly setup solo WL, kotbs, AM, RP etc.

Currently, for me, the solo meta tier list is:

AM, WL, RP, Zealot, Magus, WE

I'd say AM is #1 as it has the best cleanse + AP drain doesn't drop your detaunt so can be abused to cheese wins, including against def WEs (although need to be careful of AP sustain WEs).

What? To clear your confusion i'm not a newbie to solo roaming, in fact the opposite and semi retired from the game at this point. I've been doing solo toons for years and know all the ins and outs.

As for def WE this topic has been beaten to death already, a stealth class with stealth abilities ( i.e 6s stagger, vanish charge, stealth all discussed in here and in so many other threads) shouldn't be a regen tank brawler in your face as well, this melee role belongs to tank classes and none stealth melee brawler classes.

So, you will need to expand your view from strict 1vs1 performance on your top tier healer/regen meta solo specs and look at what the def we spec is capable of to grasp the point.

I.e what she does no other toon is capable of. Stealth classes with stealth tool utility are balanced for squishy toons, hence they get tools/tricks to survive that no other archetype gets. WH/none def we derserves this utility, def we breaks that delicate balance.

It's a spec that needed a rework for the longest of time, i refrain from using the 'wording' nerf since i don't want the WE class to be generally nerfed, on the contrary it's a class that could need a buff especially in regards to how they fit in larger groups etc alongside the WH mirror, i hope dps balance patches will change things dramatically and shake this nonsense meta of Def 1vs1 abominations.

[Sinisterror]

I urge you all to watch this Parry/Regen spec welf from Warhamme Online Live where Witchbrew was off Gcd and could do crit dmg. Riposte did crit dmg as well with 1s Icd. Where they had 2 more abilities to use in 10+ seconds than we do now. They still die fast in 1v1 sometimes which is something that is not possible in RoR because there is no "Special" attacks that has double offensive main stat applied(and target has double toughness when you are attacked by these abilities) So this makes Toughness useful. Originally 1 toughness was not the same as 1str/int/bal.

Because if toughness is that strong, there still exists Resistances/Armor and When all attacks are treated same(like they are now) there would have been exact same situation in Live Warhammer than RoR has now!
We should really get that part of the combat formula back and man just look the dmg differences : D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSOj09ALAE

[Oxonomy]

I get the frustration, and you raise valid points about accountability and disengage tools. That said, I think some of this blends class balance with the inherent design of stealth archetypes. Their strength *is* control over engagement, just like tanks trade damage for durability or healers trade kills for impact. Removing vanish-style escapes risks gutting the class identity entirely. I’d rather see tighter trade-offs—clearer sacrifices in sustain or utility—than turning WEs into glass cannons that either delete or die with no nuance.

[Shogun4138]

Other classes that solo use regen. Not a big deal. If a WE/WH use it. Then its omg not fair.

Yesterday I watched a 6 man kill a regen kotbs. This guy wouldn't die. I can guarantee that with all his cc, regen, blah blah blah. He probably kills most solo players. Yes, he has killed my WE.

I personally never played a regen WE but it seems every time some one loses they get on here and whine with the same type of thread. Then all the players that run in a blob chime in and whine.

Regen is available to all classes and makes them all OP. The main difference is who has the most cc options. Stagger. Stun. Root, knockdown, slow. Thats the utility that has gotten out of control.

[M0rw47h]

Other classes that solo use regen. Not a big deal. If a WE/WH use it. Then its omg not fair.

Yesterday I watched a 6 man kill a regen kotbs. This guy wouldn't die. I can guarantee that with all his cc, regen, blah blah blah. He probably kills most solo players. Yes, he has killed my WE.

I personally never played a regen WE but it seems every time some one loses they get on here and whine with the same type of thread. Then all the players that run in a blob chime in and whine.

Regen is available to all classes and makes them all OP. The main difference is who has the most cc options. Stagger. Stun. Root, knockdown, slow. Thats the utility that has gotten out of control.

It's not about sustain, but easy mode escape tools. No risk, high reward gameplay.

[Sinisterror]

Other classes that solo use regen. Not a big deal. If a WE/WH use it. Then its omg not fair.

Yesterday I watched a 6 man kill a regen kotbs. This guy wouldn't die. I can guarantee that with all his cc, regen, blah blah blah. He probably kills most solo players. Yes, he has killed my WE.

I personally never played a regen WE but it seems every time some one loses they get on here and whine with the same type of thread. Then all the players that run in a blob chime in and whine.

Regen is available to all classes and makes them all OP. The main difference is who has the most cc options. Stagger. Stun. Root, knockdown, slow. Thats the utility that has gotten out of control.

It's not about sustain, but easy mode escape tools. No risk, high reward gameplay.

Perfectly summarized big number of RoR playerbase and RoR campaign with No risk, High Reward gameplay! Even when AoR had its faults there was actual "pro devs" working on the game so why would you think u can do better job on the game? Aor balance was much better than current RoR is hands down Original Idea of RoR was something like playing WAR without rr100 items and no bugged lotd 15% Crit and 180melee power Eternal Talismans. Minimal changes but good ones. This originally was Emulator based Warhammer Online with good Changes, but keeping the combat formulas all in the game. Not sure when this changed but after AzA "left" feels like natural slow decay began.

Is there still anything Mmorpg that has something like Guard on Tanks? Detaunts were not a thing in mmo's before war and guard still isnt even though its genius idea and makes tanks must have.