WE - Why is there no Burn Armor equivalent?

[germ32]

Not saying I want to have WEs mirror WHs 1:1, but can anyone give me an actual reason why WE's Vehement Blades does what it currently does when WHs have an AOE armor debuff in Burn Armor?

Would anyone actually prefer to inflict ~220 corp damage to an opposing player on ability activation instead of debuffing their armor? I understand that if you use this on a WL using whirling axe for example that they will take a lot of damage from it, but I legit never see people do this or go out of their way to try to do this.

Enfeebling strike will deal more damage 80% of the time if your goal is to do damage

I don't see the sense in specifically changing this ability for WHs only when it was actually mirrored between classes on live.

WEs have almost no utility and/or aoe, giving an aoe armor debuff to us as well would be pretty healthy imo and you may even see fewer witchbrew users.

[Endari]

That's easy WH's should not have Burn Armor either.

[germ32]

That's easy WH's should not have Burn Armor either.

I don't disagree , but just figure it is far more likely that it gets mirrored than for the devs to deal with the QQ of taking something away from a class

[Endari]

True.. they take any chance they can to add more aoe to this game, kinda surprising its not already in really.

[Roids]

The way bigger question, why wp still dont have perma slow on procc, most broken ability ingame tbh.

[Gunlinger]

WHs 30ft range on finishers given to WE.
Ignoring:
That the WE does not have to use a slow aa pistol and runs fastest aa speed dual dagger, while proccing kisses left and right

If you want Burn armor now too. Then maybe it is time to make WH bullets proc on every attack with a 25% chance instead of only proccing on Finisher.
Oh and WH need to get Shadow Leap too since you want mirror.

''WEs have almost no utility''.....
Septic blade turning a no cd spammable attack into a 100% applied -25% crit chance on target sounds like some utility my WH would gladly give up Burn armor for.

[Faction69]

The equivalent for WE to Burn Armor is not vehement blades, it's the jump and slow opener. WH doesn't get that, it does get an analogue to vehement blades though.

Burn armor is also not particularly good (aside from its range) because Torment ignores armor (and is so powerful that it still outdamages razor strike even with tons of investment) so you get much less value out of it except in a group.

WE is just flat better than WH in the most relevant scenario to the two classes, very small scale, so whining and wanting to take WH's tiny little bit of utility away too is just selfish.

[germ32]

WHs 30ft range on finishers given to WE.
Ignoring:
That the WE does not have to use a slow aa pistol and runs fastest aa speed dual dagger, while proccing kisses left and right

If you want Burn armor now too. Then maybe it is time to make WH bullets proc on every attack with a 25% chance instead of only proccing on Finisher.
Oh and WH need to get Shadow Leap too since you want mirror.

''WEs have almost no utility''.....
Septic blade turning a no cd spammable attack into a 100% applied -25% crit chance on target sounds like some utility my WH would gladly give up Burn armor for.

I'd really appreciate it if you could just try to be constructive about this and not deflect with a bunch of irrelevant points.

To your point about the 'slow AA pistol', off hand auto attacks are a proc off of your main hand and the damage of your auto attacks (both the main and off hand) corresponds to the speed of the main hand weapon (plus str, penetration etc. etc.). So the speed of your off hand weapon is entirely irrelevant

I've tested this many many times and unless this has changed recently your point is just kind of moot. You should always slot your slower weapon in your main hand because you will hit your target immediately when you begin combat, and therefore hit them harder by having a slower weapon in your main hand.

Having faster auto attacks also requires you to be next to your target for an extended period of time, and in many cases that is not what happens, either due to being cced, slowed, knocked back or you get detaunted so you want your initial burst to be as high as possible. Slow attack speed is just more optimal because it will continue to cool down between the point in time where you are not next to your target, vs with a fast weapon you are losing damage every second you are not next to someone.

I agree that having a chance on hit is better over bullets, but I will say that WHs do have better finishers and honestly I think the damage from kisses just sounds a lot better on paper than it functions in reality. Kisses definitely favor more defensive builds that can just stand and beat on a target or fight 1v1 over 10 seconds and that is a separate problem all in itself that I don't think is really relevant here because those builds would absolutely be speccing witchbrew and using Enfeebling Strike which scales with the middle tree


To your point about septic blade -- im quite sure that -25% crit is multiplicative not additive. So it does not subtract a flat 25%, it would reduce your chance to crit by 25% (for example making somemone with 40% chance then have (.40 * .75) chance to crit. Really don't think anyone who is competent at the game uses that tactic so you're reaching a bit here

This thread is talking about a base line skill that increases overall damage output for all WH specs via armor debuff, theres plenty of other things i could gripe about like repel blasphemy or all of the better finishers whs have like burn away lies or exit wound (definitely less popular of the two but still good), or the better auto attack speed tactic whs have. So please be respectful and try to keep this focused, if you could address the actual topic I wanted to discuss that would be great.

[germ32]

The equivalent for WE to Burn Armor is not vehement blades, it's the jump and slow opener. WH doesn't get that, it does get an analogue to vehement blades though.

Burn armor is also not particularly good (aside from its range) because Torment ignores armor (and is so powerful that it still outdamages razor strike even with tons of investment) so you get much less value out of it except in a group.

WE is just flat better than WH in the most relevant scenario to the two classes, very small scale, so whining and wanting to take WH's tiny little bit of utility away too is just selfish.

Ok then lets still reframe this -- would ANYONE prefer shadow leap over burn armor? Have you ever actually tried using this ability?

Its range is so short and puts you so far from your target, I'm not exaggerating it is literally unusable unless you are specced to be able to use On Your knees to do a ranged knockdown, you will still not even be in range to use a melee ability on your target. At that point you may as well just not have popped stealth on your target because you will surely be detaunted by the time you actually reach them

In a perfect world yes you can hit torments but once feinted positioning runs out or if you have no latency you may not be able to reliably get behind your target. The bonus to auto attack damage and finishers is significant by having an armor debuff as well

[germ32]

The way bigger question, why wp still dont have perma slow on procc, most broken ability ingame tbh.

Yea im sure that stinks, if you dont mind lets talk about the topic of this thread you're welcome to create a new thread for your opinion