WL is probably the most broken class

[jughurta69]

The issue with the White Lion isn’t its damage, but the control over where, when, and how it can secure a kill. The ability to kill solo at any time, combined with the stun in its single-target rotation, makes it particularly problematic. The same applies to the AOE: it’s not a matter of power, but of mobility and the ability to freely choose the timing and location of engagements. No other MDPS has this level of mobility.
The issue in the game isn’t with damage, which is generally well-balanced. The main point that needs attention is Crown Controls, which are currently too inconsistent, especially regarding ranged stuns.

[Alubert]

The issue with the White Lion isn’t its damage, but the control over where, when, and how it can secure a kill. The ability to kill solo at any time, combined with the stun in its single-target rotation, makes it particularly problematic. The same applies to the AOE: it’s not a matter of power, but of mobility and the ability to freely choose the timing and location of engagements. No other MDPS has this level of mobility.
The issue in the game isn’t with damage, which is generally well-balanced. The main point that needs attention is Crown Controls, which are currently too inconsistent, especially regarding ranged stuns.

I disagree.
This is clearly about the damage tooltip.
Aoe channel deals 3 times more damage than before the patch.
There's nothing secret about it.
Either the tooltip is too big or the new armor penetration isn't working properly.

[REWENGA]

(...) From my couch i still dont see how lion is broken, (...) cos again i see them as witchunt on totaly normaly working class (...)

so, are u a real human or a troll bot? just kidding!I know you are not a bot!

However, since you keep telling everyone that their words are just empty accusations and complaints, but you yourself do not provide any evidence to the contrary, I ask you to formulate your assumptions using the precise and documented style (which you undoubtedly appreciate and share) of our distinguished colleague.

Write us more numbers and formulas and fewer words to justify the total normality of WL. We hang on your every word.

here follows the example you have to follow to impress us all.

Let's run some numbers.

A usual BIS 2hWP build (5 Warlord - 4 Vic) + 2 pc Genesis reaches 876 STR (1026 buffed) and also has 99 (Warlord 5pc) + 60 (Bloodlord) + 18 (Vic gloves) + 36 (genesis piece) = 213 melee Power. All in all, their DB will be (1026+213)/5 = 247.8

The AA damage formula before modifications is (wDps + 0.50*DB)*wSpeed
That number is then multiplied by both the Dmg% bonus (25% from Divine Fury tactic and 5% from Bloodlord weapon) and by the AA dmg% bonus (25% from EDIT: Beacon of Courage tactic and potentially another 25% from an IB's Blood of Grimnir).

• No IB buff:
  (82.6 + 0.50*247.8)*4.2 * 1.30 * 1.25 = 867 * 1.30 * 1.25 = 1409

• With IB buff:
  (82.6 + 0.50*247.8)*4.2 * 1.30 * 1.50 = 867 * 1.30 * 1.50 = 1691

Even if we consider unconventional build adjustments from the WP's side, we still can't reach 1778:

Usually 2hWPs have crit talismans in the 3rd Jewelry slot and use linis offering crit (usually TOU+crit).
Swapping out the crit talisman to a +54 Melee Power tali and the liniment to Inevitable Tempest (STR +Melee Power) while also under an IB buff, we get:
(82.6 + 0.50*266.2)*4.2 * 1.30 * 1.50 = 906 * 1.30 * 1.50 = 1766

Close but no ciggar

As we can see, we are still off from the observed 1778 AA hit even with an IB buffed regular or unconventional BIS 2hWP.
But in this case, the 2h WP in question is not even in BIS gear (Warlord-Bloodlord mix). So something else is at play here.

The difference can be explained in the following ways:

• An incoming dmg tanken increase% on the target:
  E.g. from an Engi's Signal Flare or from a BW's 7pc Warlord proc
  

• A warcamp buff/debuff:
  Another commenter seems to imply that was the case and it could certainly explain the dmg increase.

[cairlaith]

No, i just highlighted damage gab between classes. Unfortunately, it is really risky to use this data because average damage may not reflect actual situatuon. The reason is, while most if the wl running st build maybe most if the mara was running aoe.

On the other hand, while slayer/choppa losing armor and resist and we/wh using low armor somehow WL is top of the chart without any tradeoff.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you know much about this game other than being a destro fanboy. Everything you claim can be easily disproven, even on paper. Marauders are almost as tough as Tanks and can be built entirely around armor penetration. On the other hand, even comparing Warrior-type classes to Assassin-type classes is ironic enough. Sorry, I'm done with this incoherent discussion.

Good day/good evening everyone.

[wildwindblows]

No, i just highlighted damage gab between classes. Unfortunately, it is really risky to use this data because average damage may not reflect actual situatuon. The reason is, while most if the wl running st build maybe most if the mara was running aoe.

On the other hand, while slayer/choppa losing armor and resist and we/wh using low armor somehow WL is top of the chart without any tradeoff.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you know much about this game other than being a destro fanboy. Everything you claim can be easily disproven, even on paper. Marauders are almost as tough as Tanks and can be built entirely around armor penetration. On the other hand, even comparing Warrior-type classes to Assassin-type classes is ironic enough. Sorry, I'm done with this incoherent discussion.

Good day/good evening everyone.

I showed you some data at least but you are just claim mara is tank.
Pls do not comment under my post without any data.
Thanks.

[Sever1n]

The principle of the presumption of innocence applies — the prosecutor must prove the guilt.

[Sanctific]

Totally agree with one of the above commenters. WL's dmg is crazy good & such, BUT!!! the ability to engage at the mid/backlane at will coupled with high arpen, VERY high damage, 360 axe & ability to finish off targets at ~20% within a single GCD - it gives a qualitative advantage to WLs over any other class.

One may argue that mSH may do something similar - yeah, on paper (but even then not fully). Harsh reality however, is such that mSH, unfortunately, can NOT reach the levels of performance (not raw DPS alone) a WL demonstrates.

Easily checked on PTR with the help of tortalls dmg meter. Just analyze the spikes of damage vs dummy & construct (its important to test dps on both, to see the dynamics of dmg progression vs targets of different armor/toughness values) and total damage done to actually see the difference.

P.S: Please, dont mention survivability. We are talking about ROR, where guarded BWs/Sorcs frontline were meta for years, so that wouldnt be a valid argument. I've seen someone mention "Oh, but mara is tougher to kill than a WL"...in an organized environment, survivability of frontliners is irrelevant as the practice shows, they die only once mid/backlane starts to get punished, not before regardless...at which point it doesnt matter if they are WLs or Maras.

P.P.S: Fun fact (or a question rather) - when was the last time any of you guys have seen a mSH being represented in the leaderboard of killboard?

[CountTalabecland]

Remember when the destro forum lobbyist told everyone Slayer and Rampage were the most OP thing ever?

Then devs blew up Slayer, but wouldn’t you believe it the next best class on Order is also now the most OP thing ever and needs nerfed? Surely once there is no more Slayer and no more WL then things will be balanced lol.

Its seems like the destro lobbyist have more of a “we can’t stand to lose” problem than a OP order class problem.

Maybe the devs can just change all Order dmg to 0 and make things “balanced” for you guys?

I laugh but then again devs will probably give in as always and appease destro.

[cairlaith]

No, i just highlighted damage gab between classes. Unfortunately, it is really risky to use this data because average damage may not reflect actual situatuon. The reason is, while most if the wl running st build maybe most if the mara was running aoe.

On the other hand, while slayer/choppa losing armor and resist and we/wh using low armor somehow WL is top of the chart without any tradeoff.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you know much about this game other than being a destro fanboy. Everything you claim can be easily disproven, even on paper. Marauders are almost as tough as Tanks and can be built entirely around armor penetration. On the other hand, even comparing Warrior-type classes to Assassin-type classes is ironic enough. Sorry, I'm done with this incoherent discussion.

Good day/good evening everyone.

I showed you some data at least but you are just claim mara is tank.
Pls do not comment under my post without any data.
Thanks.

I'm not claiming Mara is a tank, I said "Marauders are almost as tough as Tanks and can be built entirely around armor penetration." I think you also have problems with understanding what you read in English. What did you showed as data? I was at the point where you said the WL deals 69% more damage than Mara and you mentioned 2023 data, but which data? where are datas?
Please stop being funny.

[cairlaith]

Remember when the destro forum lobbyist told everyone Slayer and Rampage were the most OP thing ever?

Then devs blew up Slayer, but wouldn’t you believe it the next best class on Order is also now the most OP thing ever and needs nerfed? Surely once there is no more Slayer and no more WL then things will be balanced lol.

Its seems like the destro lobbyist have more of a “we can’t stand to lose” problem than a OP order class problem.

Maybe the devs can just change all Order dmg to 0 and make things “balanced” for you guys?

I laugh but then again devs will probably give in as always and appease destro.

If possible, I would even request that the White Lion career be deleted from the game just to see what Destro Fanboys will cry about after the white lion. I bet that will be Sword Master, anyone?