Defensive Playstyle

[footpatrol2]

It looks like there is a push to have this game less kite like. Dampening the snare's, reducing the durations of said snares, and reducing the area effect of snares. What if this game provided different types of playstyles then just kitey? and the snare's durations and % of snare didn't matter so much. It did at one time.

I'd like to explain a playstyle I conducted on live that was a lot of fun and was not part of this Kite Meta. This is basically a ORvR group and not a 6 man meta group.

This is a racial group but please focus on the playstyle I am highlighting and not that it was a racial group.
I ran a 6 man dwarf group on live, then progressed to 12 man. All organized/coordinated and was not kite.

The group comp had a lot of layers. The 1st group comp eventually evolved into a:
Grenadier engineer
Brotherhood IB
Stone IB
Grungi RP
Grimnir RP
Skavenslayer.

The Grimnir RP was built very tanky all slotted with armor Tali's and would slot in the (Old) concussive runes tactic which acted like a AoE detaunt as long as he was doing damage. Grimnir RP would get the Willpower buff from Inspiring attack. The Grimnir's RP would be as tanky as a Warrior priest with the AoE detaunt slotted tactic slotted. We'd start with guarding the Grungi RP and Slayer but would Guard swap if needed. So we have 3 Tough group member's and 3 not so tough group members.

The idea was simple, Hold a key Position. I would take banner's everywhere I went to get the additional stat benefits and the additional morale gains it provided. What I would do is move into a key positions in either a SC or ORVR with the banner then we would call it "Setting up shop." I'd plant the banner then have napalm over the banner then the entire group sits in the napalm. Aaaaaaannndd that's it kinda. Surprisingly there is a TON to do when your not moving a lot if you pick the right locations.

Things we were doing:
When the enemy was not close we would stack Land mines in the napalm.
AP feed from engineer with Extra ammo tactic.
AP feed from Brotherhood IB Told Ya So tactic.
Passive absorbs coming from Ancestor's Echo tactic RP.
Passive Armor Buff Regenerative Shielding Tactic RP.
Group Toughness buff via Oath of Vengence tactic IB.
Cycle Mountain spirit m2 (Large group morale armor and resist buff) 30 sec's for 100% upkeep RP. We would create 2 teams when this became multiple groups and identify the player's who would start the cycle in each group and call it out on comms.
Cycle challenges for 30% dmg reduction 100% upkeep. We would create 2 teams when this became multiple groups and identify the player's who would start the cycle in each group and call it out on comms.
Use Armor Plating m2 (20% reduced damage for group) on engineer 20 sec's duration. Used when the group felt extra pressure or immedialty after a rez, since the Rezed didn't have Mountain spirit buff anymore.
Cycle Gromril plating m3 IB for 40 sec's out of 60 sec morale cooldown.
When enemy mdps got close Shatter limbs for additional protection and snare with Earthshatter from the IB.
Guard swaps are outrageously easy when you don't need to chase down Friendlies.
Oath Friend Brotherhood Swapping to RP's to maintain WP buff
If facing lots of Rdps in a SC or in ORvR tanks swapped to shields to have the option to Hold the line over the group.
If a Friendly was kicked/pulled out of the napalm a Tank would leave to catch and escort him back into the napalm.

All the normal things would happen but just in the Napalm, such as single target assisting/ heal debuffs/ knockdown and punt enemy tanks, burn down mdps but we wouldn't chase far thou. We were playing the objective. We lived in that Napalm and moved together as a Team. We won and died together as a team.

When the group wiped we would all die in the napalm, close to each other, done on purpose. This could be from a morale bomb or whatever. We would not immediately release to go to spawn point. You have a total of 10 minutes before the game forces you to spawn point. We would wait until it was safe or the enemy wasn't paying attention, then the Grimnir's RP would Self Rez with Oath Rune of Sanctuary then use (old) Grimnir's Fury Ability to group rez the entire group within 3 sec's and now we are building up to our m2 again for mountain spirit cycle. We would then put the 2nd oath rune of sanctuary on from the Grungi rp back on the Grimnir RP which was held for a wipe. You basically have 2 self rez's on the Grimnir RP every 10 minutes. When this expanded to two groups I had access to 4 Oath Rune of Sanctuary's. Look at how much Morale Bomb Recovery I have. I can get Morale bombed 4 times within 10 minutes and keep picking myself up.

Best Places for the group to set up?
Enclosed spaces to limit kicking CC.
Having a Wall somewhere.
Setting up shop on defensive locations such as building's, Gate houses in keeps, Keeps in general.
Set up shop on places that player's want to be such as BO's or Keeps.
Bad places to run this comp?
Wide open spaces
Places that require you to move constantly because the group wasn't good at kitey. It was dependant on everyone sticking close to each other.

When we started adding the 2nd group we doubled the comp but put in a Tinker engineer with the pull instead of more napalm.
Now we got:
100% upkeep on shatter limbs
100% upkeep on Earthshatter, Earth shatter on pull into the napalm.
2 tanky Grimnir's RP. Each with (old) Grimnir's Fury ability. Each with (old) Concusive rune tactic. Access to 4 Oath Rune of Sanctuary's for Morale Bomb Recovery

Anyway the strength was when the group dug into a spot it was tough to shift. The group comp was weak at the start but got stronger as the fight grew on. The Group Hinged on getting it's Morale 2 Mountain Spirit and maintaining it. Once we were able to pop m2 we could breath a little. Positioning was critical. If the group was pressured in mid transit we would have to set up shop immediately then hope to survive to our M2 then slow grind forward to the location we wanted. Group movement was based on when the next Napalm was up. We'd move from Napalm to Napalm during combat. So the group was slow moving when combat began but tough as nails after we got into our m2 mountain spirit cycle.

If I were to do this again I'd take the 1 napalm group then 1 pull group then the other two groups could be melee assist operating within the safety of the pull engineer and maybe some additional range assist. The heart of the warband would be the napalm/pull group.

You cannot Run this type of group well on RoR, mainly because of:
Lower baseline morale gain rates
I assume banner's don't provide Morale like Live. I believe live Banner's provided 15% additional morale gain per banner. So 3 banners is 45% additional morale. Mind you these banner's are costing you money when you lose them.
Renown same race tactic doesn't exist which provided either 25% to 30% additional morale gain from baseline. (probably won't matter really if the baseline morale's are at the correct rates)
Mountain spirit duration reduced to 10 sec's instead of 30 sec's.
Concussive Rune's Tactic changed so no more tanky Grimnir RP. This is the big.
Ability change to Grimnir's Fury. It's not necessary but was nice to have because it makes the morale bomb recovery rapid. Tactically if you build around (old) Grimnir's fury is a great tool for ORvR. An ability for morale bomb recovery that's not (old) Alter Fate m4? Yes please.

Was the group impossible to beat. Definately not. Was it a tough nut to crack if you weren't prepared for it? yes. We were able to face tank Obscene amounts of damage. Was it fun to play? yes. Lots of fond memories here.

OK so finally to the proposal.

Bring back the major Defensive Morale cycle's but with a self-imposed snare component say 10% or 20% snare if you have the buff, have mdps immune to the snare component or give them an ability to get out of the snare component from the defensive morale. Why not have mdps snared when they have the defensive morale cycle on? For when the mdps bypasses the keep side door.

The Major Defensive morale cycle's are:
Mountain Spirit m2 30 sec's RP
Sprout Carapace 30 sec's m3 Chosen, move impeccable armor back to m4
1001 Dark Blessings m4 30 sec's DOK add back in the Single target morale pump so they can actually reach thier M4.

Destruction can do this playstyle as well but with chaos faction classes.

Please bring back the (old) Concussive rune tactic. This is very important to the group comp listed above. If you want to mirror the AE Armor debuff tactic that the Zealot gets for order. Please use a different tactic.

Please bring back this defensive playstyle. It was a Ton of fun. Doesn't this group comp I listed above sound fun to conduct or be part of?

If you bring this back. I'll recreate this group comp then showcase it in ORvR and have someone video tape it. Then show other player's what this game is capable of. It's not impossible to beat but nothing should be.

Remove Morale damage cap, if defensive morale's are brought back.

Instead of hamstringing the morale bombs, please focus more on fixing the already ingame mechanic's of Morale bomb recovery.
Such As:
Alter Fate m4 that every healer has access too. Alter Fate m4 used to rez everyone within 30ft. 30ft is Way to small and no one will ever use it. Have it rez at say 50ft or 80 ft to all group members. Maybe move Alter Fate to m3 instead of M4.

Example: Your Front Line got Morale bombed? Fine I have Pick up with Alter Fate m4.

Add in more Morale drain mechanic's to counter Morale bombing. On live there was a Renown tactic that provided Morale Drain to same race member's of a specific type. Just make it so some AE morale drain happens if any Order/Destro faction member dies within a given area say 30ft or 50ft. Something like this. This would further promote Single Target assist groups in ORvR. Because your not just draining the morale from the guy you killed but from everyone around the guy you killed.

Just because a morale bomb goes off doesn't mean the fight is over.
Morale Cycle's are fun, Morale Bombs are fun. It's my favorite part of this game that is unique to this game.

[footpatrol2]

Sorry for the bumping. I did a major edit rework. I originally wrote the above on very little sleep and was somewhat scramble brain. I won't further bump unless replied too.

[Alubert]

Morale drop was the most primitive play style that ever existed in the game.
The changes to morale on this server are some of the best that have been made.
I don't quite understand what you mean about CC.
I would definitely prefer more CC in the game than there is now, because using CC is the only thing that helps level the playing field in a fight between a smaller group and a larger one.
Aoe slowdowns have been balanced in most abilities, unfortunately to 30% and 5 seconds duration. In my opinion, they could be stronger.

[Nekkma]

He isn't mainly talking about damage morales but the defensive ones. Chaining defensive morales allowed smaller groups to actually engage and kill, not kite, significant larger groups. I think the defensive morales already got overnerfed on live.

Also, I miss to actually get to use M4 in regular fights and not just in sieges. I think for sure morale gain should be slightly increased. Damage morales seems about right atm but some defensive ones could for sure be adjusted.

[Bankei]

Summary:

"Give Order, who already sit in keep most of the time and lead in kills YTD, more defensive options to grind the game to a complete halt"

No thanks

EDIT: to expand on this, losing control of your character is one of the biggest sins game designers commit. One of the worst things about PvE in RoR is the MASSIVE amount of CC that goes out, it's completely unnecessary.

While I agree a smaller group should be able to defeat a larger group if they have multiple advantages like better positioning, having some morales already ahead of time and creating a good funnel.

Adding CC or further Morale abilities to stem damage is not fun and not a fun idea at all