New IB solobitz!

[Farrul]

It would be very fun, get awesome crit build and probably is best tank overall for my playstyle... Sadly its also elf, has skirt and pointy ears... And is overall very sus...

But i do agree that tank roaming is actually very slow, and amost of the times a bit boring. 1\x fights are pretty fun when you have to keep track of the cc and try to keep both of them close enough so they cant run, but 1 far enough so he doesnt get too many freebies at your back

Good to see 2H IB roaming, it brings back memories. Sadly mine will be retired until the devs deliver on their promise to restore GnM.

IB 2H will burst harder than SM vs Cloth targets ( always did) just stack all those dots and 2x armor debuffs. Could also throw in the Healing debuff which is strong utility against any healer dps.

If you're not going to stack crits, maybe try speccing him SnB? SnB IB is toxic but hey... you're fighting those Regen/def WE's which is toxic gameplay defined.

P.S. Also good punt on the Def stacking WE

[Pahakukka]

It would be very fun, get awesome crit build and probably is best tank overall for my playstyle... Sadly its also elf, has skirt and pointy ears... And is overall very sus...

But i do agree that tank roaming is actually very slow, and amost of the times a bit boring. 1\x fights are pretty fun when you have to keep track of the cc and try to keep both of them close enough so they cant run, but 1 far enough so he doesnt get too many freebies at your back

Good to see 2H IB roaming, it brings back memories. Sadly mine will be retired until the devs deliver on their promise to restore GnM.

IB 2H will burst harder than SM vs Cloth targets ( always did) just stack all those dots and 2x armor debuffs. Could also throw in the Healing debuff which is strong utility against any healer dps.

If you're not going to stack crits, maybe try speccing him SnB? SnB IB is toxic but hey... you're fighting those Regen/def WE's which is toxic gameplay defined.

P.S. Also good punt on the Def stacking WE

Thanks, 2h IB is fun, but a bit challenging to get to work right, unless played 100% through the dots.
Im afraid of the day GnM comes back. I wish they reintorduce it as something else than direct regen ability.
I try to stay clear of these full defensive builds, as now i think they are extremely bad for overall health of the solo niche. Builds play themself and there really is no counter to fully defensive builds other than having 1 even more defensive yourself. Soon everyone will be roaming with snb blorks and just casting blockchannel at eachother and will only die to the old age.

2h IB kinda can get decent burst, but only to the very soft targets, which you burst a ton even with naked r1 elf. When speccing i would rather take in account classes my character is weak against, rather than over doing it against classes my character has upper hand (like speccing against mdps as ib) It evens out from both ends, occasionally you die to good mdps, promoting skillfull gameplay, but on the other hand you stand a chance against casters)

[nocturnalguest]

2h IB kinda can get decent burst, but only to the very soft targets, which you burst a ton even with naked r1 elf. When speccing i would rather take in account classes my character is weak against, rather than over doing it against classes my character has upper hand (like speccing against mdps as ib) It evens out from both ends, occasionally you die to good mdps, promoting skillfull gameplay, but on the other hand you stand a chance against casters)

Sorry to derail. Amazing video and kudos for roaming as 2h IB. but!
Burst as 2h IB is possible (and its burstiest tank ever) but only plays a role in a group. You cant burst as solo, never could. What i mean here are the numbers which were baisc info into e.g. Heavy Blow nerf, those numbers are not reachable without proper group composition of 6 anyhow reliably (beside just doing dumb stuff on dummies in Alt).
Another part i would love to comment that doesnt anyhow connects for me is - "skillfull gameplay" vs "solo roam". Solo roam has always been chess of "rock-paper-scissors", it never ever have been anyhow "skillfull". It was always and only about nice GCD management and picking up the fights. This game has much more to offer then that.Thats also the main reason why toptier elite players werent ever seen solo roaming. Other formats (6v6 specifically) are way more skillfull and demanding.

P.S. Why solo roaming was and is so attracting and entertaining is because its most spectacular game mode which is totally fitting for clips creation. That simple. for most 6v6 vid is a snooze fest, not entertaining. but wrecking 6 "lowbies" as solo has always been much more entertaining and much more appreciated by community

[Pahakukka]

2h IB kinda can get decent burst, but only to the very soft targets, which you burst a ton even with naked r1 elf. When speccing i would rather take in account classes my character is weak against, rather than over doing it against classes my character has upper hand (like speccing against mdps as ib) It evens out from both ends, occasionally you die to good mdps, promoting skillfull gameplay, but on the other hand you stand a chance against casters)

Sorry to derail. Amazing video and kudos for roaming as 2h IB. but!
Burst as 2h IB is possible (and its burstiest tank ever) but only plays a role in a group. You cant burst as solo, never could. What i mean here are the numbers which were baisc info into e.g. Heavy Blow nerf, those numbers are not reachable without proper group composition of 6 anyhow reliably (beside just doing dumb stuff on dummies in Alt).
Another part i would love to comment that doesnt anyhow connects for me is - "skillfull gameplay" vs "solo roam". Solo roam has always been chess of "rock-paper-scissors", it never ever have been anyhow "skillfull". It was always and only about nice GCD management and picking up the fights. This game has much more to offer then that.Thats also the main reason why toptier elite players werent ever seen solo roaming. Other formats (6v6 specifically) are way more skillfull and demanding.

P.S. Why solo roaming was and is so attracting and entertaining is because its most spectacular game mode which is totally fitting for clips creation. That simple. for most 6v6 vid is a snooze fest, not entertaining. but wrecking 6 "lowbies" as solo has always been much more entertaining and much more appreciated by community

Thanks!
You are right about 2H ib burst, at its best its pretty moderate compared to for example BO (another physical dmg tank) I tried with the higher crit chance and added crit dmg, but if the base dmg is low, the crits are not gonne be that much higher. Thats why I still think this as a dot class, and the rest are just a addition to the dots. Sometimes you get semi AA+channel+few dots and rock clutch in and that will counts as your burst, probably 4k at best. (and that might be very optimistic value too)

For me the 6v6 ranked matches were quite stale, atleast back when i played em with my BO. going 10min round to score that single kill wasnt that attractive. in 2-2-2 format there just was too much of mitigation compared how much you could bring dmg to table. If both teams played risk free and conversative gameplay there was very little chance to anyone die. Usually the deaths occurred when someone got bored and just went for it and ofc that broke the coherency and whole game collapsed for that team. I cant speak of Orvr smallscale since everytime i have tried it recently the opposition has actively avoided fights until they get another group with them, or ganking smaller parties out in frustration of having nothing else to do. The campaing itself does not promote any sort of skillfull gameplay either, its mostly oneside steamrolling until numbers are close equal (eu prime) when the game stops to practical standstill for 4ish hours until another side logs off and steamrolling continues.

I think that chess gameplay is kinda accurate for the soloroaming tho, but also thats the reason why it takes place at lakes and not at duel arenas, to get variables in, and forcing to try faster kills before you get stomped. in duel arena, without potions and terrain the matches are fairly predetermined indeed,

[Culexus]

Soon everyone will be roaming with snb blorks and just casting blockchannel at eachother and will only die to the old age.

That made me laugh out loud

I can absolutely imagine someone making a regen+blockchannel+loudmouth build. It may even work 1vx to burn down a single player.

[Farrul]

Thanks, 2h IB is fun, but a bit challenging to get to work right, unless played 100% through the dots.
Im afraid of the day GnM comes back. I wish they reintorduce it as something else than direct regen ability.
I try to stay clear of these full defensive builds, as now i think they are extremely bad for overall health of the solo niche. Builds play themself and there really is no counter to fully defensive builds other than having 1 even more defensive yourself. Soon everyone will be roaming with snb blorks and just casting blockchannel at eachother and will only die to the old age.

2h IB kinda can get decent burst, but only to the very soft targets, which you burst a ton even with naked r1 elf. When speccing i would rather take in account classes my character is weak against, rather than over doing it against classes my character has upper hand (like speccing against mdps as ib) It evens out from both ends, occasionally you die to good mdps, promoting skillfull gameplay, but on the other hand you stand a chance against casters)

IB 2H is the only tank i could roam with for extended periods of time ( back in days) without getting bored, the difference between an average IB just pressing buttons and an experienced one that knows how to play the IB ''piano'' and use the right ability at the correct time is quite large. Whereas roaming on a Chosen is braindead in comparison, even SM. Hence players quit these tanks after a while, but 2H IB was a passion of the veterans.

As for GnM. One has to look at the overall class or spec. IB 2H doesn't get stuff like Wods on the SM or the passive auras of a Chosen( and better itemization of magic tanks). With the spec in mind GnM was just fine. SnB roaming IB's afaik wouldn't spec it since the build would be rather bad missing too many important abilities. It even got nerfed prior to the removal which gave it a practically longer CD.

GnM also drained grudges so it had a downside and a mechanic to handle, also irrc vulnerable to healing debuffs. Stuff like the Keg of the engineer is worse since it's cast and forget.

Imho the biggest concern with regen builds aren't really tanks, but dps classes that go regen, since they get stuff like detaunts, better escape cooldowns. Witch elf being the greatest offender. A tank must tank it, they're slow on the battlefield and get ganked easily by more mobile or ranged classes. The loss of GnM had a huge impact on the 2H solo roaming IB performance, so the solo IB meta has been SnB since then.

[Pahakukka]

Thanks, 2h IB is fun, but a bit challenging to get to work right, unless played 100% through the dots.
Im afraid of the day GnM comes back. I wish they reintorduce it as something else than direct regen ability.
I try to stay clear of these full defensive builds, as now i think they are extremely bad for overall health of the solo niche. Builds play themself and there really is no counter to fully defensive builds other than having 1 even more defensive yourself. Soon everyone will be roaming with snb blorks and just casting blockchannel at eachother and will only die to the old age.

2h IB kinda can get decent burst, but only to the very soft targets, which you burst a ton even with naked r1 elf. When speccing i would rather take in account classes my character is weak against, rather than over doing it against classes my character has upper hand (like speccing against mdps as ib) It evens out from both ends, occasionally you die to good mdps, promoting skillfull gameplay, but on the other hand you stand a chance against casters)

IB 2H is the only tank i could roam with for extended periods of time ( back in days) without getting bored, the difference between an average IB just pressing buttons and an experienced one that knows how to play the IB ''piano'' and use the right ability at the correct time is quite large. Whereas roaming on a Chosen is braindead in comparison, even SM. Hence players quit these tanks after a while, but 2H IB was a passion of the veterans.

As for GnM. One has to look at the overall class or spec. IB 2H doesn't get stuff like Wods on the SM or the passive auras of a Chosen( and better itemization of magic tanks). With the spec in mind GnM was just fine. SnB roaming IB's afaik wouldn't spec it since the build would be rather bad missing too many important abilities. It even got nerfed prior to the removal which gave it a practically longer CD.

GnM also drained grudges so it had a downside and a mechanic to handle, also irrc vulnerable to healing debuffs. Stuff like the Keg of the engineer is worse since it's cast and forget.

Imho the biggest concern with regen builds aren't really tanks, but dps classes that go regen, since they get stuff like detaunts, better escape cooldowns. Witch elf being the greatest offender. A tank must tank it, they're slow on the battlefield and get ganked easily by more mobile or ranged classes. The loss of GnM had a huge impact on the 2H solo roaming IB performance, so the solo IB meta has been SnB since then.

granted, i had forgotten the grudge drain part. that does makea dent to IB dmg.
On another note, I hope you guys have seen the new IB clip too, i made new post for it some hours ago ^^

[nocturnalguest]

Thanks!
You are right about 2H ib burst, at its best its pretty moderate compared to for example BO (another physical dmg tank) I tried with the higher crit chance and added crit dmg, but if the base dmg is low, the crits are not gonne be that much higher. Thats why I still think this as a dot class, and the rest are just a addition to the dots. Sometimes you get semi AA+channel+few dots and rock clutch in and that will counts as your burst, probably 4k at best. (and that might be very optimistic value too)

For me the 6v6 ranked matches were quite stale, atleast back when i played em with my BO. going 10min round to score that single kill wasnt that attractive. in 2-2-2 format there just was too much of mitigation compared how much you could bring dmg to table. If both teams played risk free and conversative gameplay there was very little chance to anyone die. Usually the deaths occurred when someone got bored and just went for it and ofc that broke the coherency and whole game collapsed for that team. I cant speak of Orvr smallscale since everytime i have tried it recently the opposition has actively avoided fights until they get another group with them, or ganking smaller parties out in frustration of having nothing else to do. The campaing itself does not promote any sort of skillfull gameplay either, its mostly oneside steamrolling until numbers are close equal (eu prime) when the game stops to practical standstill for 4ish hours until another side logs off and steamrolling continues.

I think that chess gameplay is kinda accurate for the soloroaming tho, but also thats the reason why it takes place at lakes and not at duel arenas, to get variables in, and forcing to try faster kills before you get stomped. in duel arena, without potions and terrain the matches are fairly predetermined indeed,

Yes, all true. In regards to burst you are absolutely correct, it comes from stacking up dots and buffs additionally layering out GBF (interrupting it ofc with something e.g. earthshatter), thats how you can reach 8-9k within 3 seconds which was confirmed on dummies. Also correct that in real environment BO just does better with its kit. In regards to crit dmg you cant actually do much with it, amounts of what you can get (literally just off sov) are way too low to capitalize on that. In typical supersweaty 6v6 you are actually (depending on a comp ofc and foremost) better off with full WS stuff rather then go full STR however difference is not that huge so both options are pretty viable. Crit you can stack well on IB but imo its much better to either go str or ws route rather then trying to focus on it, amounts from tactic and gear should be just enough.

As for 6v6 gameplay, to me its the most enjoyable experience, if teams are not having very big skill/exp gap (which is usually the case, very few equally strong teams) then its the most intense and stressful gameplay. However i dont somewhat agree with dmg statement, dmg is incredibly huge in 6v6, really big (and mitigation too and proper positioning and other things), you know, its just all about actually so many things, like there are many incredibly skilled tanks who just literally feels you are going for a punt and at the very exact moment they instantly turn around so you hit your button while they face you. Stuff like that snowballs and you get what you get - you call a go, enemy team reads your go and denies it and rinse repeat for whole match. I do like it, any small mistake, any bad timing, bad positioning, literally everything you may mess up can totally cost you a match. Great stuff. But like i said, very boring to watch on a clip unlike soloroaming.

[Stinksuit]

2h IB kinda can get decent burst, but only to the very soft targets, which you burst a ton even with naked r1 elf. When speccing i would rather take in account classes my character is weak against, rather than over doing it against classes my character has upper hand (like speccing against mdps as ib) It evens out from both ends, occasionally you die to good mdps, promoting skillfull gameplay, but on the other hand you stand a chance against casters)

Sorry to derail. Amazing video and kudos for roaming as 2h IB. but!
Burst as 2h IB is possible (and its burstiest tank ever) but only plays a role in a group. You cant burst as solo, never could. What i mean here are the numbers which were baisc info into e.g. Heavy Blow nerf, those numbers are not reachable without proper group composition of 6 anyhow reliably (beside just doing dumb stuff on dummies in Alt).
Another part i would love to comment that doesnt anyhow connects for me is - "skillfull gameplay" vs "solo roam". Solo roam has always been chess of "rock-paper-scissors", it never ever have been anyhow "skillfull". It was always and only about nice GCD management and picking up the fights. This game has much more to offer then that.Thats also the main reason why toptier elite players werent ever seen solo roaming. Other formats (6v6 specifically) are way more skillfull and demanding.

P.S. Why solo roaming was and is so attracting and entertaining is because its most spectacular game mode which is totally fitting for clips creation. That simple. for most 6v6 vid is a snooze fest, not entertaining. but wrecking 6 "lowbies" as solo has always been much more entertaining and much more appreciated by community

I mostly agree with what you say in here but while solo is often times just rock paper scissors there is definitely skill involved to it aswell. If there wasn't then you'd never win any bad match ups. I think Daewuur mentioned it already that there are quite many variables to soloing in orvr iirc. Like builds, classes, who gets the opener, gear, what morales you play etc.

Personally I'm with you when you say that 6v6 is the highest skill ceiling in the game but it is like you said, its just super boring to watch, so often times solo content is what people tend to enjoy watching.

Imo skill in this game is also not the easiest to measure. Like how do you see if someone is good or bad? Some warband players might do great in orvr 24v24 but are terrible in solo. But solo players might be useless for group play on the contrary.. xD then again solo "skill" doesn't really reflect anything because as you mentioned its often times just predetermined by your class matchup and also the fact that this game is a team based game. :)

[nocturnalguest]

I mostly agree with what you say in here but while solo is often times just rock paper scissors there is definitely skill involved to it aswell. If there wasn't then you'd never win any bad match ups. I think Daewuur mentioned it already that there are quite many variables to soloing in orvr iirc. Like builds, classes, who gets the opener, gear, what morales you play etc.

Personally I'm with you when you say that 6v6 is the highest skill ceiling in the game but it is like you said, its just super boring to watch, so often times solo content is what people tend to enjoy watching.

Imo skill in this game is also not the easiest to measure. Like how do you see if someone is good or bad? Some warband players might do great in orvr 24v24 but are terrible in solo. But solo players might be useless for group play on the contrary.. xD then again solo "skill" doesn't really reflect anything because as you mentioned its often times just predetermined by your class matchup and also the fact that this game is a team based game.

Yes, indeed, dont missunderstand me - of course there is a skill involved in soloroaming, its very debatable but for me its one of the most skillful things, the GCD management. Its just while you solo roam and do 1vX you only accountable for your own action while 6v6 requires a full team coordination, how a go looks like, everyone prepares for CC, dps pulling out short versions of their bursts according to situation, healers do their cc/silence (and its very very tricky, cause other healers are not dumb bots and they see you doing a go so they do everything to deny you and avoid getting staggered/silenced) and its actually like a synchroswimming. Everything has to be done as a team. While solo roaming you are just on your own.

Agree that skill is not properly measurable, its amazing to watch e.g. kryun play on his BG or Halta doing wonders on book WP or if anyone ever managed to play with e.g. Hao, Tion, Wam, Teinhala, Advar (could name a ton more, but mostly those are way too long no active, sorry to everyone who i didnt specifically mention, its would take like 9/10 of the post if i mention everyone) or other exceptional leaders would clearly know what great MA looks like and how much its gamechanging if you have a great lead. Its literally seems like 90% of the succes if MA/lead is great. You pin down the issue of many absolutely exceptional solo roamers who are insanely great with their GCD management, alike mdpv who i doubt is actually being a human being (especially due to being so cold hearted in his videos, thats absolutely insane how calm he is in so dire situations of 1v6(!!!!!) for example) cause the way he plays in soloroam is just godlike but we havent seen him doing serious groups. There are tho other examples of the old, like Eathisword (Volgograd, the IB), who is known as incredibly great solo roamer plus amazing 6v6 player.

Environments do matter, like you mention 24v24, ive been myself into GvG which were done for funz (greatest ones but my team lost them all, most amazings were when Hao was active, game was so much better with such people), the serious one, or just training. Its all so different if you change the perspective and the scale of the fight.

So yes, there is very none transparent measures of how someone is good or bad. And second the thesis that skill doesnt reflect anything because sometimes its just a feature of the enviroment and fight itself (be it 1v1, 1vX, sc, 6v6, 24v24, orvr etc).