White Lion Nerf when?

[ismetto]

Whenever someone says something real, they immediately get labeled as a 'realm prider'... I suppose taking the cheap route is a talent in itself. Labeling every disagreement as 'delusion' is where any real discussion ends. Luckily, the game is still bigger than opinions. From this point on, this topic is over for me. Good Luck..

[Mooselager]

We shouldn't overlook the impact of player skill differences in scenarios (SCs). More often than not, that's what decides the outcome. Right now, the player quality on the Order side is clearly higher than on Destro.

What can a player with an 80 Renown character do?
They finish their set and start working on a new alt.
They play their main in core groups and level alts when groups aren't available.

But then there are some clever ones who always flock to the currently overpowered or popular classes — like WP.
A seasoned Destro player messaged me:
"/w Puni, I got my WP to 60 in a week and already saved up close to 5K crests."
And they brag about it as if it's some great achievement.

I've been playing this game since 2008. I've only ever gone Order just for chat or fun — never to seriously develop a character there. That’s probably why no one ever heard of me on that side.
Because let’s be honest: the playstyle on Order is simply easier.

You don't need to be greedy — "I want this, I want that, I want it all, it should all be mine."
There are these cross-realm (Xrealm) players who just jump on whatever class is trending, and then walk around acting like they're top-tier players.

I believe faction switching should be limited — maybe once a month.
Right now it's just: jump to Destro, then jump to Order — wherever the advantage lies. This causes population imbalance and discourages players from trying to improve or adapt.
Of course, some will always take the easy path — but luckily, most still don’t.

One of the very few moments of sanity in this thread, thank you & you are 100% correct.
Ironic because the people attempting to discredit you are the ones being delusional themselves.
Of course there is some small anecdotal evidence to support these childish claims of theres, but if players are able to regularly level up faster & farm more crests quicker on one side than the other, its really not rocket science & just shows that these delusional people attacking you are either incredibly mentally challenged & require our support, or are they are just being 100% dishonest.

At this point I think its a 50/50 between either of those two.


I am sorry for the childish & inane rebutals you received from players who are acting in bad faith.

P.S: The Xrealming has become core to this game now & it'll never get better, this game would be legit a ghosttown if they enforced some lock to factions. After I came back from a hiatus, It seems like ALL destro guilds now also play order as well on their downtime.

[Bozzax]

Pro tip play Knight, WP, WL or SM, SW since Gravord left this is the easy way

A small suggestion for making WL less crazy would be to tone down their aoe below slayer and BW at least if mobility and medium armor are kept

Breake up some of the free gravy best ST debuff in game, CS-finisher, aa tactic, crit tactic, 20% dmg wo gcd, fortress HDBuff with near 0 spec investment . This on top of ease of assist with pounce needs to be balanced

Good luck with balance

[Dalael]

There are classes that need to be nerded before WL. Like the broken Magus.

[rady]

Magus is S tier in skilled hands but it doesn't make average players great like WL.

[Bozzax]

Magus
• Performs well solo in certain specs, but requires heavy spec investment (certain build)
• Not particularly impressive in small-scale or roaming scenarios.(lacks quick burst heal debuff)
• Typically one tken in warbands for specific utility rather than raw power.
• Solid performance when zerg surfing, offering decent support in large fights.

White Lion (WL)
• Excels in single-target (ST) damage with a cookie-cutter foundation that requires minimal spec investment. Giving access to Brutal pounce with extra power 2pts renders even the third tree mostly irrelevant
• Strong solo class with excellent dueling potential.
• S-tier for small-scale and roaming thanks to high mobility and strong bursty damage output. No other melee has equal ability to target switch burst as fluid
• Serves as the backbone of Order warbands: medium armor, S-tier mobility, and strong ST without significant trade-offs.
• One of the best—if not the best—melee zerg surfers, leveraging both mobility and a powerful pull and burst to score kills to dominate large fights

Given the current state of balance and role efficiency, our primary focus should be on addressing the Magus first.

[Xameleon]

I like how Bozzax said Magus "performs well" and WL is "Strong solo". I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to see him play WL vs Magus 1v1 or in small scale scenario. Magus is the strongest 1v1 class, WL is not even top 5.

Order picks WL because they don't have other melee options. SL is pure garbage. Bomb BW and DPS WP can't move, because of cancerous Covenant of Celerity and abundance of AoE crowd control from destro side. Cherry on top is a sweet BO speed boosts on demand. How can you even approach destro WB as a melee character? The answer is simple, pounce. If order looses WL to nerf similar to the one SL had, order would have 0 options for melee damage dealer realistically.

[Culexus]

A 10-page thread because some Shammy got killed by a WL while solo-roaming and made a rage thread demanding Shaman be buffed and WL nerfed.

Sorry to be the guy that quotes himself:

Based on reading many forum/discord posts on this topic, all class balance in this game falls into 3 distinct categories:

Category 1: Class I can beat easily/can’t beat me = These classes are balanced. It’s my skill as a player that allows me to easily beat them.

Category 2: Class I can beat/can also beat me = Fairly balanced. My skill allows me to overcome them, but some OP things need tweaking/removing to make them more balanced. See above.

Category 3: Class that I can’t beat/can beat me easily = Broken as hell. Probably played by a dev or one of their friends. Needs a massive nerf. I would totally be able to beat them if it weren’t for the fact that they’re so broken.

You will find that it’s mostly category 3 that’s discussed on the forum, usually immediately following from a death to such a class. Category 2 is also brought up when this happens, albeit less frequently, and normally focuses on specific abilities. Category 1 is never mentioned because the classes in this category are already balanced, so no such deaths occur.

Finding if the class you play is balanced or needs a buff is determined by how many of the enemy classes fall into the above categories. The more enemy classes that fall into category 1, the more balanced your class.

TLDR; Most balance discussions in this game are massively subjective and based on player ego and emotion. As long as players die, there will never be balance.

[Bozzax]

I like how Bozzax said Magus "performs well" and WL is "Strong solo". I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to see him play WL vs Magus 1v1 or in small scale scenario. Magus is the strongest 1v1 class, WL is not even top 5.

Order picks WL because they don't have other melee options. SL is pure garbage. Bomb BW and DPS WP can't move, because of cancerous Covenant of Celerity and abundance of AoE crowd control from destro side. Cherry on top is a sweet BO speed boosts on demand. How can you even approach destro WB as a melee character? The answer is simple, pounce. If order looses WL to nerf similar to the one SL had, order would have 0 options for melee damage dealer realistically.

The previous design of SL, where most key abilities were consolidated into a single specialization, serves as a strong example of my argument. Even after the recent adjustments, the class continues to perform similarly to Choppa in practice.

Correct certain builds—such as solo regeneration-focused Magus and other regen-based tank setups—remain at an S-tier power level, further illustrating what should be ongoing balance concerns.

[illumius]

3 years of constant nerfs to the order side are taking their toll. Good players on the destruction side have left the project. If you remove the xrealm players, the only ones left on the destruction side will be those who can't chain more than two skills and don't know what positioning is.

If TUP+NGE can assemble a warband that easily defeats 2-3 order warbands, then it's not about the WLs. Instead, the order side's damage dealers need to be strengthened. I can suggest a simple experiment: remove the lion's pounce, but give it aoe control, a 20% crit tactic, unlink the 50% crit mass tactics and catch from the pet, and give it a permanent 20% armor and 10% heal buff.